Podcast Archive
The Soil and Roots podcast is a primary means of journeying together into deep discipleship with people from all over the world. Join Brian Fisher (along with Kyle Moody and Dr. Tim Boswell) as he takes us on a guided path into aspects of spiritual formation not normally explored in modern churches.
Soil and Roots’ primary media outreach is the Soil and Roots podcast, found on all major podcast platforms.
Join host Brian Fisher on this weekly series as we venture into a slow, progressive journey into deep discipleship, exploring the hidden ideas that form us, the church, and the culture.
Featuring occasional visual aides, personal stories, and a very different perspective on discipleship and modern Christianity, listeners and readers have described the podcast as “rich,” “paradigm-shifting,” “interactive,” and “transformative.”
Along the way, Brian welcomes co-host Kyle Moody and frequent guest Dr. Tim Boswell as they (sometimes hilariously) wrestle with the deeper aspects of the faith, all in the quest to become more like Jesus.
The podcast is designed to be listened to in sequential order starting at the beginning, as newer episodes build on older ones. Many episodes are also available as blog entries here on the site.
Come join us as we dig underneath our belief statements to explore the depths and mysteries of the heart of God, others, and ourselves.
Season 1: Deep Discipleship and The Great Omission
Season 1 introduces the central challenge behind Soil & Roots: Dallas Willard’s Great Omission. While modern Christianity often emphasizes belief, information, and church participation, Jesus called people to become disciples. Throughout this season, Brian Fisher explores the foundations of deep discipleship, the role of ideas in spiritual formation, and the three major obstacles that prevent transformation: the Discipleship Dilemma, the Formation Gap, and the Forgotten Kingdom. These episodes establish the core framework that shapes the entire Soil & Roots journey.
Ep 1: Deep Discipleship
Deep discipleship is more than information, church attendance, or belief. It is the lifelong process of becoming like Jesus through intentional spiritual formation. In this opening episode of Soil & Roots, Brian Fisher introduces the concept of deep discipleship, explores Dallas Willard’s idea of the Great Omission, and explains why modern Christianity often produces informed believers without producing transformed people. This episode lays the foundation for the entire Soil & Roots journey and introduces the core questions that will shape future conversations about formation, community, and the kingdom of God.
Ep 2: The Idea of the Gospel
The gospel is more than a message about forgiveness, heaven, or life after death. In this episode, Brian Fisher explores the foundational idea of the gospel as Jesus proclaimed it: the good news that the Kingdom of God is now available to everyone. Drawing on Scripture and the teachings of Dallas Willard, Brian challenges common assumptions that have reduced the gospel to a transaction rather than an invitation into a new way of life. This conversation lays a critical foundation for deep discipleship by helping listeners recover a fuller understanding of Jesus’ central message and its implications for everyday life.
Ep 3: The Magnificent Seven (The Kingdom of God)
The Kingdom of God was the central message of Jesus, yet it is often one of the most misunderstood concepts in modern Christianity. In this episode, Brian Fisher explores what Jesus meant when He announced that the Kingdom of God was at hand and why recovering this vision is essential for deep discipleship. Rather than a distant heaven or merely a future reality, the Kingdom is the present reign and activity of God breaking into everyday life. Understanding the Kingdom changes how we view salvation, spiritual formation, the church, and our participation in God’s ongoing work in the world. Episode 3 explores the Kingdom of God through seven defining attributes.
Ep 4: It’s the End of the World as We Know it
In Episode 4 of the Soil & Roots Podcast, Brian Fisher completes his exploration of the idea of the gospel by examining how our expectations about the future shape Christian life and discipleship in the present. Many Christians have inherited a vision of the future that emphasizes escape from the world rather than participation in God’s redemptive work within it. Brian challenges this perspective by contrasting the Gospel of Salvation with the Gospel of the Kingdom, exploring how different views of the end times influence the way believers live, engage culture, and understand their calling. Ultimately, this episode asks a profound question: Is Jesus merely Lord of souls, or is He Lord of all creation? Recovering the Kingdom vision of the gospel invites Christians into a larger story—one in which God’s reign is breaking into the world here and now, transforming both people and the places they inhabit.
Ep 5: You’re Only Human (And Why We’re Confused About It)
What does it really mean to be human? Beneath every approach to discipleship, spiritual formation, and the Christian life lies an often-unexamined answer to that question. In this episode, Brian Fisher explores Christian anthropology—the biblical understanding of human nature—and why our assumptions about ourselves profoundly shape how we relate to God, others, and the world around us. Are human beings primarily sinners, consumers, thinkers, or image-bearers? What does Scripture teach about our identity, purpose, and design? By examining the ideas that quietly influence our view of humanity, Brian reveals how a healthy understanding of what it means to be human becomes an essential foundation for deep discipleship and lasting spiritual transformation.
Ep 6: Total Eclipse of the Heart (Why We Might Be Bored With Church)
Spiritual growth is rarely a straight line. While many Christians assume discipleship progresses through a simple pattern of learning and obedience, the reality is often far more complex.
In this episode, Brian Fisher introduces The Critical Journey by Janet O. Hagberg and Robert A. Guelich, a classic framework that identifies six stages of spiritual development commonly experienced throughout the Christian life. From the recognition of God and the life of discipleship to the challenges of the wall, inner transformation, and a life increasingly characterized by love, each stage presents unique opportunities and obstacles. By understanding these stages, listeners can better interpret their own spiritual experiences, avoid unnecessary discouragement, and recognize how God continues to form people over a lifetime of discipleship and growth.
Ep 7: Take My Breath Away (Bonus Episode)
This episode provides a comprehensive review of the Deep Discipleship Framework and the foundational ideas that shape the Soil & Roots vision for spiritual formation.
Brian Fisher revisits key concepts introduced throughout the season, including Dallas Willard’s Great Omission, the Six Core Ideas that quietly shape every human life, and the Five Elements of Formation that Jesus used to cultivate mature disciples.
Along the way, he explores how our deepest assumptions about God, ourselves, others, and the world influence our thoughts, desires, and behaviors, often without our awareness. More than a summary, this episode serves as a roadmap for the journey ahead, showing how transformation occurs through intentional time, practicing habits, authentic community, trusted intimacy, and deepening instruction. By bringing these ideas together into a single framework, Brian helps listeners understand both the challenges and opportunities of pursuing deep discipleship in everyday life.
Ep 8: The Anatomy of Ideas (And Why This Isn’t a Typical Christian Podcast)
Ideas are far more powerful than most people realize. Long before our behaviors become visible, they are shaped by the assumptions, beliefs, and stories we carry about God, ourselves, others, and the world around us. In this episode, Brian Fisher explores the Anatomy of Ideas and explains why transformation begins at a deeper level than habits or behavior alone. Drawing on the biblical themes of light and darkness, he examines how hidden ideas influence our understanding of identity, power, love, purpose, and value. By uncovering the ideas that quietly govern the human heart, Brian offers a fresh perspective on spiritual formation and discipleship, helping listeners understand why lasting change requires more than information—it requires the renewal of the mind and the transformation of the ideas that shape our lives.
Ep 9: I Saw the Sign (How to Discern What’s Really Going On in Our Hearts)
Spiritual transformation is often difficult because the deepest realities of the heart remain hidden from view. In this episode, Brian Fisher introduces the Eight Heartview Indicators—thoughts, emotions, health, actions, relationships, words, time, and money—and explains how they serve as windows into the ideas and desires that shape our lives. Rather than focusing solely on outward behavior, these indicators help reveal the underlying assumptions driving our decisions, habits, and spiritual growth. By learning to pay attention to these areas, listeners gain a practical tool for self-awareness and discipleship, allowing them to identify where their lives are aligned with the Kingdom of God and where transformation is still needed. This episode marks an important step toward integrating belief, character, and everyday life into a more holistic vision of spiritual formation.
Ep 10: For What It’s Worth (Two Opposing Ideas of Human Value)
Every person lives from a set of deeply held assumptions about value—what makes them worthy, significant, and lovable. In this episode, Brian Fisher continues the exploration of the Anatomy of Ideas by examining the Core Idea of Value and the powerful ways it shapes the human heart. Drawing a contrast between ideas of light and ideas of darkness, he explores the difference between a value rooted in God’s love and image-bearing design versus a value rooted in performance, achievement, appearance, or approval. Brian then introduces a practical Heartview exercise to help listeners identify which understanding of value is actually operating beneath the surface of their lives. By uncovering the hidden sources of worth that drive thoughts, emotions, relationships, and behavior, this episode provides an important step toward greater self-awareness and deeper spiritual transformation.
Ep 11: The Formation Conundrum (Are We Really Being Discipled in Church?)
Why is spiritual transformation so difficult, even when we genuinely desire to change? In this episode, Brian Fisher introduces what he calls the Formation Conundrum—the challenge of becoming the kind of person we long to be when the conditions necessary for transformation are missing. While many Christians have access to biblical teaching and information, Jesus formed His disciples through a much richer environment that included extended time together, practicing habits, authentic community, trusted intimacy, and intentional instruction. Brian argues that transformation rarely occurs through information alone because human beings are formed by the environments and relationships in which they live. This episode lays the groundwork for what later becomes known as the Formation Gap by exploring the difference between knowing what is true and having access to the formative experiences that allow truth to take root in the heart. Understanding this conundrum helps explain why so many believers feel stuck and points toward a more complete vision of deep discipleship and spiritual formation.
Ep 12: Supersize Me
Why does modern discipleship often feel fragmented, disconnected, and ineffective? In this episode, Brian Fisher takes a closer look at the institutional church and the challenges that arise when spiritual formation is separated into sermons, programs, classes, and occasional events rather than embedded within a shared way of life. Drawing on both biblical principles and practical experience, he explores how human beings are integrated creatures living in an integrated world, meaning transformation rarely occurs through isolated inputs alone. Brian also examines the natural tendency of institutions to grow larger, more complex, and increasingly impersonal over time, often making it difficult to cultivate the depth of relationships necessary for meaningful discipleship. As a result, many believers find themselves informed but not deeply formed. This conversation challenges listeners to reconsider the environments that shape spiritual growth and explores why smaller, simpler, and more relational communities may provide a more effective pathway toward deep discipleship, authentic transformation, and life with God.
Ep 13: Let Me Sum Up
Season 1 concludes by bringing together the major themes that have shaped the Soil & Roots journey so far. In this episode, Brian Fisher revisits the central challenge of deep discipleship and Dallas Willard’s Great Omission, exploring why modern Christianity often succeeds at making converts while struggling to form mature disciples. Along the way, he summarizes the foundational ideas introduced throughout the season, including the power of unconscious assumptions, the Anatomy of Ideas, the Heartview framework, and the Five Key Elements of spiritual formation: time, habit, community, intimacy, and instruction. Brian argues that transformation occurs not merely through information but through environments intentionally designed to shape the whole person. The episode also serves as a bridge into the next stage of the conversation by introducing the Three Primary Problems that will guide future seasons: the Forgotten Kingdom, the Discipleship Dilemma, and the Formation Gap. Together, these frameworks provide a roadmap for understanding why spiritual formation is often difficult and how a more holistic vision of discipleship can lead to deeper transformation and life with God.
Season 2: The Discipleship Dilemma
Season 2 explores a forgotten reality of spiritual formation and introduces one of Soil & Roots’ foundational ideas: Double Knowledge.
For centuries, Christian thinkers have observed that the journey toward God and the journey toward self are deeply connected. We cannot truly know God without learning to see ourselves honestly, and we cannot understand ourselves without encountering God.
Yet this journey into self-knowledge is often derided or condemned in our current age. What is there to discover in our hearts?
Ep 14: Unbreak My Heart
Welcome to Season 2 of the Soil & Roots Podcast. This season explores what we call the Discipleship Dilemma. Throughout Christian history, many spiritual leaders have taught that growth requires both the knowledge of God and the knowledge of self. Yet while modern Christianity emphasizes studying God, it often provides little guidance for understanding ourselves. The result is a dilemma: becoming more like Jesus requires self-awareness, but many believers lack the tools to explore the deeper realities of their own hearts. Throughout this season, Brian Fisher introduces Heartview as a practical solution. By paying attention to eight indicators—thoughts, emotions, health, behaviors, relationships, words, time, and money—we can begin to uncover the ideas and desires shaping our lives. Practiced with God and a trusted friend, Heartview becomes a powerful tool for spiritual formation and deep discipleship.
Ep 15: I Think Therefore I’m a Mess
Season 2 turns practical with Thoughts—the first of Heartview’s eight indicators. In this episode, Brian Fisher explores how recurring thought patterns reveal the hidden ideas shaping our lives. Drawing on the concept of “Ideas in the Air,” he examines how cultural assumptions quietly influence the way we think about God, ourselves, and the world around us. Brian also introduces the practical process of Uncover, Determine, and Immerse, a framework for identifying ideas of darkness, replacing them with ideas of light, and intentionally participating in spiritual transformation. By learning to pay attention to our thoughts, we gain a clearer understanding of the heart and the forces shaping our discipleship.
Ep 16: The Way You Make Me Feel
In this episode, Brian Fisher explores Emotions as the second Heartview indicator and explains why our feelings often reveal deeper realities within the heart. Drawing from personal experiences of grief, loss, anger, and healing, he examines how emotions can serve as valuable clues to the ideas, desires, and stories shaping our lives. Rather than ignoring, suppressing, or fearing emotions, Brian offers a practical framework for paying attention to them with honesty and curiosity. By learning to uncover the hidden ideas beneath our feelings, we can move from ideas of darkness toward ideas of light and experience deeper transformation in our relationship with God, others, and ourselves.
Ep 17: The Bedrock (Bonus Episode)
In this bonus episode, Brian Fisher brings together the major themes explored throughout Seasons 1 and 2 of the Soil & Roots Podcast. Revisiting the Great Omission, Deep Discipleship, the Six Core Ideas, the Five Elements of Formation, and the Discipleship Dilemma, he explains how these frameworks work together to shape spiritual transformation. Brian also reviews the role of hidden ideas, the importance of self-knowledge, and the Heartview process for uncovering what is happening beneath the surface of our lives. More than a summary, this episode provides a roadmap for the journey ahead, showing how knowing God and knowing ourselves work together to form mature disciples and cultivate a deeper life with God.
Ep 18: Let’s Get Physical. And Mental. And Spiritual.
In this episode, Brian Fisher explores Health as the third Heartview indicator and examines how our physical, mental, and spiritual well-being reveal deeper realities about the heart. Many Christians think about these areas separately, but Scripture presents human beings as integrated persons living in an integrated world. What affects us physically can influence us mentally and spiritually, just as our spiritual lives can impact our emotions, thoughts, and bodies. By paying attention to our health, we gain valuable insight into the ideas, habits, and patterns shaping our lives. This episode offers a practical framework for understanding how these dimensions interact and why caring for the whole person is an important part of becoming more like Jesus.
Ep 19: On Our Best Behavior
In this episode, Brian Fisher explores Behaviors as the fourth Heartview indicator and examines what our repeated patterns of action reveal about the ideas and desires shaping our hearts. While Christians often focus on visible spiritual activities such as prayer, Bible study, and church involvement, true spiritual formation extends far beyond outward religious behavior. Drawing on the concepts of Heartview, double knowledge, and the Five Elements of Formation, Brian explains how our behaviors across all four relationships—with God, others, ourselves, and creation—provide valuable insight into who we are becoming. By learning to evaluate our actions holistically and honestly, we gain a clearer understanding of the hidden ideas influencing our lives and discover new opportunities for deeper discipleship and transformation.
Ep 20: Why Can’t We All Just Get Along?
In this episode, Brian Fisher explores Attachment Styles in relationships as the fifth Heartview indicator and examines how our earliest relationships help shape the way we relate to God, others, and ourselves. Drawing on the concepts of secure, avoidant, and ambivalent attachment, he explains how our origin stories influence the ideas, desires, and relational patterns operating beneath the surface of our lives. While attachment wounds can profoundly impact our spiritual formation, they do not define our future. Through the love of God, healthy relationships, and intentional discipleship, we can move toward greater security and wholeness. This episode provides a practical framework for understanding how attachment shapes the heart and why secure attachment is an important part of becoming more like Jesus.
Ep 21: What Would You Say?
In this episode, Brian Fisher explores Words as the sixth Heartview indicator and explains how our speech reveals the ideas and desires shaping our hearts. What we say, how much we say, what slips out when we are frustrated or unguarded, and even what we choose not to say can provide valuable insight into what we truly believe and love. Jesus taught that the mouth speaks from the overflow of the heart, making our words an important window into our inner lives. By learning to pay attention to our speech patterns, conversations, and silences, we can uncover hidden assumptions, identify ideas of light and darkness, and gain a deeper understanding of the forces influencing our spiritual formation and discipleship.
Ep 22: Do You Remember the Time?
In this episode, Brian Fisher explores Time as the seventh Heartview indicator and examines how the way we spend our time reveals the deeper ideas and desires shaping our hearts. Time is one of our most valuable resources, and our schedules often tell the truth about what we truly love, value, and pursue. Through a personal story of formative influence and relational wounds, Brian demonstrates how the people with whom we spend time and the environments we inhabit profoundly shape our spiritual formation. He also explores the connection between time, community, presence, healing, and hope, showing how intentional relationships can become powerful catalysts for transformation. By paying attention to how we invest our time, we gain valuable insight into who we are becoming and the direction of our discipleship journey.
Ep 23: Wardens and Wingers
In this episode, Brian Fisher explores Money as the eighth and final Heartview indicator, examining why Scripture so often connects money to the condition of the heart. The way we earn, spend, save, and give frequently reveals deeper beliefs about identity, value, trust, power, and security. Brian introduces two common patterns—the Warden and the Winger—to illustrate how very different financial behaviors can emerge from similar wounds and fears. Whether we cling tightly to control or spend freely to soothe pain, our relationship with money often exposes deeper issues beneath the surface. By exploring these patterns honestly and in the context of trusted relationships, we gain valuable insight into our hearts and discover new opportunities for healing, freedom, and spiritual formation.
Ep 24: The World As Best As I Remember It, Vol. 1
As Season 2 begins to draw to a close, Brian Fisher expands the conversation beyond individual hearts to examine the cultural ideas that shape entire societies. Building on the Discipleship Dilemma and the concept of “Ideas in the Air,” he explores how assumptions about God, humanity, truth, and meaning have evolved from the ancient world through modernism and into today’s postmodern culture. Using musician Rich Mullins as an example of courageous curiosity and thoughtful faith, Brian encourages listeners to examine the cultural currents influencing both the church and their own hearts. By understanding the ideas that surround us, we become better equipped to discern which assumptions align with the Kingdom of God and which quietly shape us in other directions.
Ep 25: The World As Best As I Remember It, Vol II
This episode serves as the culmination of Season 2’s exploration of the Discipleship Dilemma, connecting Heartview to the larger cultural forces shaping both the church and our individual lives. Brian Fisher examines how modern and postmodern assumptions about truth, knowledge, individuality, and spiritual formation have influenced the way Christians think about discipleship today. From the elevation of intellect over experience to the tendency to value institutions over individuals, these “Ideas in the Air” often shape us more than we realize. Brian also addresses a common criticism of Heartview—that self-examination is self-centered—and argues that genuine self-knowledge is an essential part of becoming more like Jesus. Ultimately, this episode invites listeners to embrace a more integrated vision of discipleship in which knowing God and knowing ourselves work together to cultivate deeper love, healing, and transformation.
Season 3: The Formation Gap
For generations, much of the modern church has operated on a simple assumption: if people learn the right things, they will become the right kind of people. We have invested enormous amounts of time and energy in teaching, preaching, classes, books, podcasts, and information delivery. Yet despite having unprecedented access to Christian knowledge, many followers of Jesus continue to feel spiritually stuck.
This disconnect between what we know and who we are becoming is what we call the Formation Gap.
Ep 26: Mind the Gap
Season 3 begins with a provocative question: What if the greatest obstacle to deep discipleship is not a lack of information, but a misunderstanding of how people are actually formed?
In this episode, Brian Fisher explores the connection between the Discipleship Dilemma and what Soil & Roots calls the Formation Gap—the distance between the environments that truly shape the human heart and what many Christians experience today. Along the way, he reflects on the surprising character of Jesus, the importance of “double knowledge” (knowing God and knowing ourselves), and why story, relationships, and community play such a central role in spiritual transformation.
Ep 27: Weird Science
Why does lasting spiritual transformation take so much time?
In this episode, Brian Fisher explores the first of the Five Key Elements of Formation: Time. While Jesus often performed instant physical miracles, He never seemed to offer instant healing for broken relationships, wounded hearts, or spiritual maturity. Instead, the deepest forms of transformation appear to unfold through long-term relationships, suffering, healing, and intentional discipleship.
Drawing from neuroscience, trauma research, and Christian spiritual formation, Brian examines why the human heart is shaped primarily through attachment, community, and experience rather than information alone. The conversation explores the impact of trauma on discipleship, the importance of understanding our own stories, and why many churches struggle to cultivate environments where genuine heart transformation can occur.
Ep 28: Not Enough Time (Bonus Episode)
How do we find time for deep discipleship in an already overloaded life?
In this bonus episode, Brian Fisher responds to one of the most common questions listeners have asked during Season 3: If spiritual formation requires immersive communities built around time, habit, community, intimacy, and instruction, how can ordinary people possibly make room for that in modern life?
Revisiting the Three Primary Problems—the Forgotten Kingdom, the Discipleship Dilemma, and the Formation Gap—Brian argues that the challenge is not primarily about finding more time but about reordering our lives around what we love most. Drawing on examples from marriage, parenting, and spiritual formation, he explores why discipleship often feels difficult, why self-directed Christianity falls short, and how intentional communities can help us become more like Jesus.
Ep 29: Cat’s in the Cradle
What if one of the greatest obstacles to spiritual formation is our inability to be fully present?
Continuing the exploration of time as a key element of formation, Brian Fisher examines how modern assumptions about productivity, efficiency, technology, and busyness shape our relationships with God, others, ourselves, and creation. Drawing on insights from Dallas Willard, Curt Thompson, and Kelly Kapic, he argues that discipleship is not merely about acquiring information but becoming the kind of person who thinks, loves, and relates like Jesus.
Ep 30: Time in a Bottle
What does it actually look like to reorder our lives around becoming more like Jesus?
In this episode, Brian Fisher concludes the Season 3 exploration of time as a key element of spiritual formation. Drawing together themes from discipleship, neuroscience, community, and Heartview, he argues that transformation happens through intentional relationships, meaningful presence, honest self-examination, and active participation in God’s work of renewal.
Ep 31: The Seven Habits of Highly Defective People
What role do habits play in becoming more like Jesus?
In this episode, Brian Fisher introduces the second Key Element of Formation: habits. Moving beyond simple behavior modification, he explores habits as recurring patterns that reveal the deeper ideas and desires shaping the human heart. Through the framework of Heartview, listeners are invited to examine how their thoughts, emotions, relationships, behaviors, health, words, and use of time and money reveal what they truly love.
As Season 3 continues, this episode lays the foundation for understanding how habits shape spiritual formation and why discipleship involves much more than simply trying harder.
Ep 32: I Don’t Drop Shoes (The Habit of Hearing from God)
Does God still speak today? And if He does, how can we learn to recognize His voice?
In this episode, Brian Fisher explores one of the most important habits in spiritual formation: hearing God. Drawing on Scripture and the insights of Dallas Willard, Richard Foster, and others, he examines common assumptions Christians hold about divine communication and why many believers struggle to experience a personal, conversational relationship with God.
The discussion explores four common approaches to hearing God—from denial to demand—and offers a practical vision for cultivating a deeper friendship with Him. Along the way, Brian explains why hearing God is a habit developed over time through prayer, Scripture, community, experience, and attentiveness to God’s presence.
Ep 33: Linda, Linda, Listen!
What if one of the most overlooked spiritual disciplines is learning to listen?
In this episode, Brian Fisher explores the habit of listening to others’ hearts—not merely hearing their words, but paying attention to the deeper ideas, desires, wounds, and motivations that shape their lives. Building on the Five Key Elements of Formation and the habit of hearing God, he argues that discipleship requires more than speaking truth. It requires the ability to listen with curiosity, compassion, and genuine concern.
Drawing from Scripture, the life of Jesus, the apostles, and even lessons learned in professional sales training, Brian demonstrates how meaningful questions often reveal what lies beneath the surface. Along the way, he explores why many modern Christians are better at monologue than dialogue and why true spiritual formation often begins with learning to ask better questions.
Ep 34: Roxette Was Right
Can Christians pay attention to their own hearts without becoming self-centered?
In this episode, Brian Fisher explores the spiritual habit of listening to our own hearts. Building on previous conversations about hearing God and listening to others, he introduces Heartview as a practical framework for understanding the hidden ideas and desires shaping our lives. Through our thoughts, emotions, behaviors, relationships, words, health, time, and money, our hearts reveal what is happening beneath the surface.
The conversation examines four biblical characteristics of the heart and addresses common reasons many Christians resist self-examination. Is paying attention to our inner life selfish? Does it distract us from serving others? What happens when looking honestly at our hearts reveals wounds, fears, sin, or patterns we would rather ignore?
Ep 35: Everybody Wants to Rule the World
What does it mean to steward creation and culture as a follower of Jesus?
In this episode, Brian Fisher concludes the exploration of habits by examining our relationship with creation and culture through the lens of the Kingdom of God. Connecting the Great Commission with the Cultural Commission of Genesis, he argues that disciples are called not only to make disciples but also to participate with God in cultivating, organizing, healing, and restoring the world around them.
The conversation explores what it means to multiply, subdue, and rule alongside God rather than apart from Him. From families and businesses to education, government, media, and the arts, every sphere of human activity becomes an opportunity to advance God’s Kingdom through beauty, goodness, truth, and service.
Ep 36: Houston, We Have Three Problems! (Part 1)
Why does modern Christianity often struggle to produce deep disciples?
In this bonus episode, Brian Fisher revisits the foundational ideas behind Soil & Roots and introduces the framework that shapes the entire podcast: the Three Primary Problems. Building on Dallas Willard’s concept of the Great Omission, he explains how the Forgotten Kingdom, the Discipleship Dilemma, and the Formation Gap combine to undermine spiritual formation and disciple-making in the modern church.
The episode traces Brian’s personal journey into the teachings of Jesus, the Kingdom of God, anthropology, and the concept of “double knowledge”—the idea that knowing God and knowing ourselves are deeply connected. Along the way, listeners receive a high-level overview of how these three problems developed and why recovering a biblical vision of discipleship requires more than information alone.
Ep 37: Houston, We Have a Problem (Part II)
This bonus episode concludes our two-part exploration of the Three Primary Problems that contribute to the modern discipleship crisis.
Building on Episode 36’s discussion of the Forgotten Kingdom, Brian Fisher examines the remaining two challenges: the Discipleship Dilemma and the Formation Gap. Why do so many Christians feel disconnected from God despite years of church involvement? Why does spiritual growth often seem slower and more difficult than expected?
The conversation explores the concept of “double knowledge”—the relationship between knowing God and knowing ourselves—and explains why healing, self-awareness, and understanding our stories are essential parts of discipleship. Brian also revisits the Five Key Elements of Formation and shows how the absence of intentional formative environments leaves many believers struggling to become more like Jesus.
Ep 38: Where Everybody Knows Your Name
Can we become like Jesus without deep, intentional community?
In this episode, Brian Fisher begins exploring the third Key Element of Formation: community. Building on the themes of the Forgotten Kingdom, the Discipleship Dilemma, and the Formation Gap, he argues that spiritual growth rarely happens in isolation. Instead, disciples are formed through relationships marked by presence, acceptance, vulnerability, commitment, and shared purpose.
Using an unexpected illustration from popular sitcoms like Friends, Cheers, The Office, and Parks and Recreation, Brian examines why these stories resonate so deeply with us. Beneath the humor lies a universal longing to belong to a community where we are known, accepted, challenged, and transformed.
Ep 39: Introducing the Greenhouse Community
What if the missing ingredient in modern discipleship isn’t more information, but a different kind of community?
In this first Greenhouse episode, Brian Fisher is joined by Kyle Moody to introduce the concept of Greenhouses—intentional communities designed to help people become more like Jesus. Building on the themes of the Formation Gap and the Five Key Elements of Formation, they explore why spiritual growth rarely happens in isolation and why immersive relationships play such a vital role in discipleship.
Together, Brian and Kyle discuss the purpose of the Greenhouse episodes, the importance of dialogue over monologue, and how formative communities create space for honesty, growth, encouragement, and transformation. Along the way, they reflect on the challenges of modern church life, the longing for deeper relationships, and the practical realities of creating communities where people can genuinely flourish.
Ep 40: Let the Professionals Handle It
What if we’ve outsourced discipleship to professionals?
In this episode, Brian Fisher explores a growing assumption within modern Christianity: that spiritual formation primarily happens through institutions, programs, and professional Christian leaders. Drawing on the writings of Robert Coleman, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, and others, he asks whether the New Testament presents a different picture—one in which ordinary believers gather together to help one another become more like Jesus.
The conversation examines the difference between the church institutional and the church universal, wrestles with questions of authority and accountability, and challenges the idea that meaningful discipleship can only occur under professional supervision. Along the way, Brian revisits the Five Key Elements of Formation and explains why Greenhouses are designed to cultivate the kinds of relationships that foster confession, growth, trust, and transformation.
Ep 41: (GH) Let the Pros Handle It
Can ordinary Christians help one another become more like Jesus?
In this Greenhouse discussion, Brian Fisher and Kyle Moody continue the conversation from Episode 40 by exploring the relationship between discipleship, church institutions, and Christian community. Together they wrestle with questions surrounding authority, mentorship, personal responsibility, and the role of the local church in spiritual formation.
The discussion examines the Kingdom of God as the foundation of discipleship and considers whether modern Christians have become overly dependent on institutions, programs, and professional leaders for their spiritual growth. Along the way, Brian and Kyle explore the value of courageous curiosity, the importance of wrestling with difficult questions, and why intentional communities may be one of the most powerful environments for becoming more like Jesus.
Ep 42: One of These Things is Not Like the Other
What exactly is a Greenhouse—and how is it different from a Bible study, small group, or Sunday school class?
In this episode, Brian Fisher provides one of the clearest explanations yet of the purpose and design of a Greenhouse discipleship community. Building on the Three Primary Problems—the Forgotten Kingdom, the Discipleship Dilemma, and the Formation Gap—he explains why Greenhouses exist and why they are designed differently than many modern church programs.
The conversation explores three defining characteristics of a Greenhouse: teaching and living the Kingdom, becoming more like Jesus as we explore both His heart and our own, and doing so within a committed five-element community built around time, habits, community, intimacy, and instruction. Along the way, Brian examines the early church in Acts 2, the Methodist class meeting movement, and the role of radical generosity in formative Christian community.
Ep 43: One of These Things Is Not Like the Other (GH)
In this Greenhouse discussion, Brian Fisher and Kyle Moody continue the conversation from Episode 42 by wrestling with two central questions: what does it mean to live in the Kingdom of God, and why does deep discipleship require a serious commitment of time?
The conversation explores why many Christians have inherited a reduced view of evangelism, where sharing the Gospel becomes a script or obligation rather than the natural overflow of love for Jesus. Brian and Kyle discuss Kingdom work in ordinary life, the difference between proclamation and initiation into the Kingdom, and why the best evangelists may be better listeners than talkers.
They also address one of the most common objections to Greenhouses: “I don’t have the time.” If discipleship is the journey of becoming more like Jesus, then time is not optional. It reveals desire.
Ep 44: Danger, Will Robinson!
What happens when the person damaging a Christian community claims to follow Jesus?
In this episode, Brian Fisher explores the difficult and often overlooked topic of narcissism in the church. Drawing from personal experience, biblical examples, and the work of Christian counselors and psychologists, he examines how narcissistic personalities operate within Christian organizations, churches, and formative communities.
The conversation explores common narcissistic behaviors such as love bombing, gaslighting, manipulation, and control while offering practical wisdom for recognizing unhealthy patterns. Brian also wrestles with difficult questions about repentance, empathy, spiritual authority, and whether narcissistic people can genuinely change.
Ep 45: Danger, Will Robinson! (GH)
How do you recover after being wounded by a narcissist?
In this Greenhouse discussion, Brian Fisher and Kyle Moody continue the conversation from Episode 44 by exploring the aftermath of narcissistic relationships and the role healthy community plays in healing. Drawing from personal experiences, they discuss gaslighting, manipulation, betrayal, and the confusion that often follows when trust has been broken.
The conversation examines why Christians are often vulnerable to narcissistic abuse, how trusted relationships can help us discern truth from distortion, and why healing rarely happens in isolation. Brian and Kyle also explore a deeper question: Where is God in the midst of relational suffering?
Ep 46: The Discipleship Sandwich (Bonus)
Why do so many sincere Christians struggle to become more like Jesus?
In this episode, Brian Fisher brings together the major themes of Soil & Roots and argues that many discipleship efforts fail because they are missing two essential components. While spiritual formation remains the heart of discipleship, formation alone is not enough. Christians also need a compelling vision of the Kingdom of God and a community specifically designed to support transformation.
Using a framework called the “Discipleship Sandwich,” Brian explains how the Forgotten Kingdom, the Discipleship Dilemma, and the Formation Gap work together to shape the spiritual lives of modern believers. He explores why Christian fatalism has weakened the church’s influence, why discipleship must extend beyond information and habits, and why transformation happens most effectively in committed communities built around time, habits, community, intimacy, and instruction.
Ep 47: The Discipleship Sandwich (GH)
Is the world getting worse, or are Christians looking at the wrong story?
In this Greenhouse discussion, Brian Fisher and Kyle Moody continue unpacking the themes from Episode 46 by exploring Christian fatalism, the Gospel of the Kingdom, and how our expectations shape the way we live. Together they wrestle with a common assumption in modern Christianity: that the world is inevitably declining and that the church’s primary responsibility is simply to endure until the end.
The conversation examines the influence of dispensationalism, the relationship between suffering and redemption, and why the Kingdom of God offers a more hopeful vision of reality. Brian and Kyle also discuss the importance of formative community, arguing that deep discipleship requires people who can walk with us through suffering rather than merely explain it away.
Ep 48: Tearin’ Up My Heart
Why do so many Christians feel lonely despite being surrounded by people?
In this episode, Brian Fisher explores the relationship between intimacy, vulnerability, and spiritual formation. Drawing on insights from John Calvin, Curt Thompson, C.S. Lewis, Rosaria Butterfield, and others, he argues that our relationships with God, ourselves, and other people are deeply interconnected. To know God more deeply often requires learning how to know ourselves and allowing ourselves to be genuinely known by trusted others.
The conversation examines the modern loneliness epidemic, why many churches unintentionally reinforce isolation, and how fear, shame, and image management keep us from experiencing authentic community. Brian also explores why intimacy is inherently risky and why meaningful relationships require the courage to be vulnerable.
Ep 49: Tearin’ Up My Heart (GH)
Why can church groups still feel lonely?
In this Greenhouse discussion, Brian Fisher and Kyle Moody continue the conversation from Episode 48 by exploring intimacy, vulnerability, and the risk of being known. They discuss why many small groups function more as fellowship or information groups than truly formative communities, and why that often leaves people longing for something deeper.
The conversation explores how trusted relationships shape our experience of God, why intimacy requires risk, and why being real with God and others is essential to spiritual formation. Brian and Kyle also reflect on the difference between polite Christian connection and the kind of community where people can bring their doubts, fears, wounds, and questions honestly.
Ep 50: Trapped In The System
Why do Christians often believe the right things yet struggle to live them?
In this episode, Brian Fisher explores one of the most important distinctions in spiritual formation: the difference between beliefs and ideas. Drawing on the work of Dallas Willard and James K.A. Smith, he argues that our lives are shaped less by the beliefs we profess and more by the unconscious ideas and desires buried deep within our hearts.
The conversation revisits the Six Core Ideas, examines how cultural assumptions shape our understanding of God and Scripture, and explores why information alone rarely produces lasting transformation. Brian also explains how ideas are formed through relationship and experience, helping listeners understand why intimacy is such a vital element of discipleship.
Ep 51: Trapped in the System (GH)
Why do our actions often tell a different story than our theology?
In this Greenhouse discussion, Brian Fisher and Kyle Moody continue the conversation from Episode 50 by exploring the gap between our stated beliefs and the deeper ideas that actually shape our lives. Through personal stories and honest reflection, they wrestle with the uncomfortable reality that many of our heart-level assumptions don’t always align with what we know to be true.
The discussion revisits the Six Core Ideas and explores how identity, value, power, purpose, and love are formed over time through relationships and experiences. Brian and Kyle also examine why spiritual transformation requires more than information, and why Greenhouses create space for the vulnerability, trust, and relational experiences that help our deepest ideas gradually become aligned with the ideas of Jesus.
Ep 52: You Can Check Out Any Time You Like…
What does a spiritually mature Christian actually look like?
In this episode, Brian Fisher challenges several common assumptions about spiritual maturity. Many Christians assume that mature disciples are marked by supernatural power, exceptional theological knowledge, or a calm, unshakable demeanor. But do those ideas truly reflect the life of Jesus?
Drawing on examples from Scripture, church culture, and modern discipleship movements, Brian explores three popular models of maturity: the “overpowered” Christian, the “accurate” Christian, and the “placid” Christian. Along the way, he asks whether our vision of discipleship has become disconnected from the character of Christ.
Ep 53: You Can Check Out Any Time You Like…(GH)
What does a mature disciple actually look like?
In this Greenhouse discussion, Brian Fisher is joined by Dr. Tim Boswell to continue the conversation from Episode 52. Together they explore the longing for deep community, the challenges of modern isolation, and the common assumptions Christians hold about spiritual maturity.
The discussion revisits three popular images of mature discipleship: the miracle-working Christian, the highly informed Christian, and the perpetually calm Christian. Along the way, Brian and Tim wrestle with questions of obedience, character, discernment, emotional health, and what it means to become more fully human as we grow closer to Jesus.
Ep 54: Another Brick in the Wall
Why do so many Christians feel stuck despite years of Bible studies, sermons, and church involvement?
In this episode, Brian Fisher begins exploring instruction as the fifth key element of formation by examining a deeper question: What if most Christian teaching only prepares us for the early stages of discipleship? Drawing on The Critical Journey by Janet Hagberg and Robert Guelich, he introduces six stages of spiritual growth and explores why many believers struggle when they encounter the Inward Journey, the Wall, and the deeper work of transformation.
Ep 55: Another Brick in the Wall (GH)
Why doesn’t more information automatically produce spiritual growth?
In this Greenhouse discussion, Brian Fisher and Kyle Moody continue the conversation from Episode 54 by exploring the role of instruction in spiritual formation. Together they wrestle with a common assumption in modern Christianity: that hearing enough truth will naturally transform us into people who live like Jesus.
The discussion explores the difference between learning about Jesus and experiencing Him, the value of instruction within the Five Key Elements of Formation, and why many Christians find themselves spiritually stuck despite years of sermons, classes, and Bible studies. Brian and Kyle also revisit The Critical Journey, discussing the Inward Journey, the Wall, and the deeper stages of discipleship that often receive little attention in modern church life.
Ep 56: The Participation Award
Why do Christians have access to more biblical teaching than ever before yet often feel spiritually stuck?
In this episode, Brian Fisher continues exploring instruction as the fifth key element of formation by examining a troubling paradox. Modern believers have unprecedented access to sermons, podcasts, books, Bible studies, and theological resources, yet many still struggle to experience the deep transformation promised by the Christian life.
Drawing on The Critical Journey, The Trellis and the Vine, Dallas Willard, Randy Alcorn, and others, Brian argues that information alone cannot form a disciple. He explores why most Christian instruction lacks a progressive formative pathway, how our expectations shape discipleship, and why the church often prioritizes participation over transformation.
Ep 57: The Participation Award (GH)
Should pastors primarily teach information or train disciples?
In this Greenhouse discussion, Brian Fisher and Kyle Moody continue unpacking the themes from Episode 56 by exploring one of the central challenges facing modern discipleship. Together they examine how many churches have unintentionally adopted an educational model of spiritual growth, emphasizing information transfer while often neglecting the deeper work of transformation.
The conversation explores the difference between pastors as teachers and pastors as trainers, the influence of modern church structures, and why becoming like Jesus requires more than sermons, classes, and Bible studies. Brian and Kyle also discuss apprenticeship, the role of community in formation, and why discipleship must move beyond knowledge into lived experience.
Ep 58: What is a Greenhouse?
What does it take to create a community that helps people become more like Jesus?
After exploring the Five Key Elements of Formation throughout Season 3, Brian Fisher brings everything together by offering a practical guide to starting a spiritual formation group. Drawing on the Soil & Roots Greenhouse model, he explains how time, habits, community, intimacy, and instruction work together to create an environment where genuine transformation can occur.
Brian reviews the Three Primary Problems, the Formation Gap, and the deeper stages of discipleship before walking through the structure of a Greenhouse, including the weekly rhythms, participant roles, spiritual practices, and expectations. He also addresses common objections and explains why these communities often resonate with people longing for deeper discipleship, authentic relationships, and a richer experience of the Kingdom of God.
Ep 59: Greenhousing the Greenhouse
Why does spiritual growth seem to happen more deeply in some communities than others?
In this Greenhouse discussion, Brian Fisher and Kyle Moody conclude Season 3 by reflecting on their experiences inside a Greenhouse and exploring why intentional communities play such an important role in spiritual formation. Together they discuss the four Greenhouse rhythms, the role of facilitators, the importance of safety and trust, and why meaningful transformation requires more than information alone.
The conversation also examines the difference between Greenhouses and traditional community groups, the value of civil discourse, the role of commitment, and how spiritual growth often occurs through relationships, shared experiences, and honest conversations. As the season closes, Brian and Kyle revisit the Formation Gap and explain why community remains one of God’s primary tools for helping people become more like Jesus.
Season 4: The Forgotten Kingdom
Season 4 explores the Forgotten Kingdom—the Kingdom of God as the central message of Jesus and the larger story of Scripture. Brian Fisher examines why many Christians are unclear about the Kingdom, how our assumptions about the End Times shape our sense of purpose, and why the Gospel is more than personal salvation. This season traces the Kingdom from Genesis to Revelation, explores the relationship between heaven and earth, and asks what it means for followers of Jesus to live as Kingdom dwellers now. Along the way, Soil & Roots examines hidden qualities of deep discipleship such as courageous curiosity, particularity, and releasing control. Season 4 invites listeners to recover a fuller vision of King Jesus, His Kingdom, and our participation in His work of restoration.
Season 4, Ep 60: Secret Invasion
Season 4 begins by exploring one of the most important—and most overlooked—themes in the teachings of Jesus: the Kingdom of God.
In this opening episode, Brian Fisher reviews the major ideas from the first three seasons of Soil & Roots, including the Great Omission, Heartview, the Formation Gap, and the Five Key Elements of Formation. He then introduces the Forgotten Kingdom, arguing that much of modern Christianity has lost sight of the larger mission and purpose that shaped the life and ministry of Jesus.
The Kingdom is more than a future destination or a theological concept. It is the in-breaking of God’s life, restoration, and original design into a world shaped by competing ideas. Understanding the Kingdom provides the larger context for discipleship, spiritual formation, and the work Jesus is accomplishing in the world today.
Ep 61: Secret Invasion (GH)
In this Greenhouse discussion, Brian Fisher and Kyle Moody continue unpacking the themes introduced in Episode 60. Together they explore the role of ideas in spiritual formation, what it means to become more aware of the deeper forces shaping our hearts and culture, and why discipleship requires learning to see beneath the surface.
The conversation examines ideas of light and darkness, the power of expectation, and whether Jesus came to restore only our relationship with God or all four of our primary relationships: with God, ourselves, others, and creation. Brian and Kyle also discuss the Kingdom of God as an invasion of restorative ideas into a world shaped by distortion, fragmentation, and brokenness.
Ep 62: The Magic Kingdom
What is the Kingdom of God?
Many Christians talk about the Kingdom, but few have a clear definition of what Jesus meant when He made it the centerpiece of His ministry. In this episode, Brian Fisher explores one of the most foundational questions of discipleship by examining the nature, scope, and purpose of the Kingdom of Light.
Drawing on Scripture, Dallas Willard, Jeremy Treat, and Albert Wolters, Brian argues that the Kingdom is more than a private spiritual experience or a future heavenly destination. Instead, it is God’s ongoing work of restoration, reconciliation, renewal, and redemption throughout creation. Along the way, he explores the relationship between ideas of light and darkness, the goodness of creation, the Seven Mountains of Culture, and what it means for Christ to reconcile all things to Himself.
Ep 63: The Magic Kingdom (GH)
What is the Kingdom of God actually doing in the world today?
In this Greenhouse discussion, Brian Fisher and Kyle Moody continue exploring the ideas introduced in Episode 62 by wrestling with the nature of the Kingdom of God, the goodness of creation, and the ongoing conflict between the kingdoms of light and darkness. Together they discuss how personal stories shape our understanding of discipleship, why civil discourse matters, and how deep transformation often begins by examining the assumptions we carry beneath the surface.
The conversation explores Jeremy Treat’s definition of the Kingdom, the role of human participation in God’s work of restoration, and C.S. Lewis’ concept of the “deep magic” that underlies reality. Brian and Kyle also wrestle with a difficult question: if Jesus has already won, what does that victory mean for the world right now?
Ep 64: The Neverending Story
How does the Kingdom of God fit into the larger story of Scripture?
In this episode, Brian Fisher explores the Bible’s grand narrative from Genesis to Revelation and argues that many Christians have been taught individual passages and doctrines without ever seeing the larger story those passages are telling. Rather than a disconnected collection of moral lessons, the Bible presents a sweeping account of creation, rebellion, redemption, restoration, and renewal.
Along the way, Brian revisits the Three Primary Problems, the Forgotten Kingdom, and the idea that God’s mission extends far beyond personal salvation. By examining the bookends of Scripture—Eden and the New Creation—he shows how the Kingdom of God serves as a central thread running through the entire biblical story. The result is a richer vision of discipleship, purpose, and God’s plan to reconcile all things.
Ep 65: (GH) The Neverending Story
Is the Bible a collection of spiritual stories, or is it one unified narrative?
In this Greenhouse discussion, Brian Fisher, Kyle Moody, and Dr. Tim Boswell continue unpacking the themes from Episode 64 by exploring how the Bible’s grand narrative shapes our understanding of discipleship, the Kingdom of God, and the mission of Jesus.
Together they discuss childhood assumptions about Scripture, the tendency to view biblical stories as disconnected lessons, and the growing realization that the entire Bible points toward a single story of creation, rebellion, redemption, restoration, and renewal. The conversation also explores how different understandings of the Kingdom influence our view of salvation, discipleship, and the future.
Ep 66: Everybody Hates Brian
Do our beliefs about the end times actually matter for discipleship?
Many Christians view the end times as a peripheral topic—interesting to discuss but largely disconnected from everyday spiritual growth. In this episode, Brian Fisher argues the opposite. Because we are integrated beings living in an integrated world, our assumptions about the future shape our understanding of the Kingdom of God, and our understanding of the Kingdom shapes our spiritual formation.
Brian introduces the four major end-times perspectives—Premillennialism, Dispensationalism, Amillennialism, and Postmillennialism—and explains why they deserve thoughtful exploration rather than avoidance. Along the way, he examines the difference between unity and passive détente, the role of healthy theological wrestling, and how insecurity, identity, and tribal loyalty often influence our beliefs more than we realize.
This episode launches a six-part exploration of the end times through the lens of deep discipleship, humility, and Kingdom formation.
Ep 67: Everybody Hates Brian (GH)
Is the world getting better or getting worse?
In this Greenhouse discussion, Brian Fisher and Kyle Moody continue the conversation from Episode 66 by exploring one of the central questions beneath every end-times framework. While Christians often debate timelines, tribulations, and millennial views, the deeper issue may be how we understand the direction of history itself.
Together they unpack the four major end-times perspectives and examine how each one answers a fundamental question: Is the world winding up toward greater restoration, or winding down toward increasing chaos and collapse? The discussion explores the rise of dispensationalism, the influence of culture and media, and why assumptions about the future quietly shape our expectations for discipleship, mission, and the Kingdom of God.
Ep 68: Splitters and Joiners
Why do sincere Christians read the same Bible and arrive at radically different conclusions about the end times?
In this episode, Brian Fisher moves beneath the surface of prophecy charts, rapture debates, and millennial timelines to explore the assumptions that shape how we read Scripture itself. Drawing on the work of Dr. Michael Heiser, he examines two foundational questions that sit beneath the major end-times systems: What story is the Bible telling, and how should we interpret it?
Along the way, Brian introduces the concepts of “Splitters” and “Joiners,” explores the relationship between Israel and the Church, examines different approaches to biblical interpretation, and explains why these assumptions influence everything from the rapture to the millennium. The episode challenges listeners to become more aware of the hidden ideas shaping their theology and spiritual formation.
Ep 69: Splitters and Joiners (GH)
Why do faithful Christians hold such different views of the end times?
In this Greenhouse discussion, Brian Fisher, Kyle Moody, and Dr. Tim Boswell continue exploring the themes from Episode 68 by reflecting on how believers inherit, evaluate, and wrestle with different end-times perspectives. Together they discuss growing up within particular theological traditions, discovering alternative viewpoints later in life, and learning how assumptions shape the way we read Scripture.
The conversation explores dispensationalism, premillennialism, amillennialism, and postmillennialism, while also examining the deeper questions beneath the debate. How do we know which view is most faithful to Scripture? What role do labels and theological camps play? And how should disciples of Jesus engage disagreement without fear or hostility?
Ep 70: Things That Make You Go “Hmmm”
As Brian Fisher continues the End Times and Formation mini-series, he explores one of the most important questions beneath every end-times framework: What are Christians actually doing here?
Drawing on the distinction between Church-Age Optimism and Church-Age Pessimism, Brian examines how our assumptions about the future shape our understanding of discipleship, mission, and the Kingdom of God. If the world is winding down, our purpose may focus primarily on rescue and relief. If the Kingdom is steadily advancing, our purpose may include restoration, renewal, reconciliation, and cultural transformation.
Ep 71: Things That Make You Go “Hmmm” (GH)
What is our purpose in the Kingdom of God?
In this Greenhouse discussion, Brian Fisher, Kyle Moody, and Dr. Tim Boswell conclude the End Times and Formation mini-series by exploring one of its most practical implications: what Christians believe about the future inevitably shapes how they live in the present.
Together they reflect on Church-Age Optimism and Church-Age Pessimism, the Splitter and Joiner frameworks, and the hidden assumptions that influence discipleship, mission, and spiritual formation. The conversation examines whether Christians are primarily waiting for rescue or actively participating in God’s work of restoration, renewal, and reconciliation.
Ep 72: A Hobbit Shoots Free Throws (Bonus)
What does deep discipleship actually look like?
In this bonus episode, Brian Fisher steps back to review the major themes explored throughout the Soil & Roots journey so far. From Dallas Willard’s Great Omission to the Critical Journey, the Discipleship Dilemma, the Formation Gap, and the Forgotten Kingdom, Brian traces the ideas that have shaped the first four seasons of the podcast.
Along the way, he revisits Heartview, the Eight Indicators of the heart, the role of our stories in spiritual formation, and the importance of intentional communities that help people become more like Jesus. The episode also summarizes the Splitter and Joiner perspectives on the Kingdom and explains why understanding God’s larger story is essential to deep discipleship.
Whether you’re new to Soil & Roots or have been listening from the beginning, this episode provides a helpful roadmap for the journey ahead.
Ep 73: A Hobbit Shoots Free Throws (GH)
Why does your story matter in discipleship?
In this Greenhouse discussion, Brian Fisher and Kyle Moody reflect on the major themes from Episode 72 and revisit the Soil & Roots journey into deep discipleship. Together they explore the hidden ideas beneath our beliefs, the importance of understanding our stories, and the long-forgotten Christian practice of “double knowledge”—growing in the knowledge of God by growing in the knowledge of ourselves.
The conversation revisits the Great Omission, the Discipleship Dilemma, the Formation Gap, and the Forgotten Kingdom while highlighting the role of trusted community in spiritual formation. Along the way, Brian and Kyle discuss why many Christians feel stuck in their growth, how Greenhouses create space for transformation, and why deep discipleship requires courage, curiosity, and a willingness to explore the deeper realities of the heart.
Ep 74: Thy Kingdom Come?
Do we really want the Kingdom of God to come?
In this episode, Brian Fisher continues exploring the Forgotten Kingdom by examining one of the most uncomfortable questions in spiritual formation. While most Christians celebrate the benefits of God’s Kingdom—peace, reconciliation, justice, restoration, and renewal—far fewer stop to consider the cost.
Beginning with a fresh look at what the Kingdom of God actually is, Brian draws on Dallas Willard, Jeremy Treat, and Scripture to explore God’s reign over all things. He then wrestles with a deeper question: if Jesus is truly King, why do many of us resist the very Kingdom we claim to seek?
Ep 75: Thy Kingdom Come? (GH)
Do we really want the Kingdom of God to come?
In this Greenhouse discussion, Brian Fisher and Kyle Moody continue exploring the challenging question raised in Episode 74. While most Christians embrace the blessings of God’s Kingdom—peace, reconciliation, healing, justice, and renewal—few stop to consider the personal cost of living under the reign of King Jesus.
Together they discuss Dallas Willard’s vision of the Kingdom, the meaning of the Lord’s Prayer, and the tension between wanting the benefits of the Kingdom and resisting the deeper surrender it requires. The conversation explores Stage 6 of The Critical Journey, radical generosity, trust, contentment, and what it means to participate in God’s work of restoration while depending on Him for daily bread.
Ep 76: Kingdom Dwellers – Courageous Curiosity
Why does curiosity matter in discipleship?
In this episode, Brian Fisher begins a new Kingdom Dwellers mini-series by exploring an often-overlooked quality of spiritual maturity: courageous curiosity. While many Christians associate discipleship with knowledge, certainty, or obedience, Scripture presents a different picture. God consistently asks questions, and Jesus asked more than 300 questions throughout the Gospels.
Drawing on insights from Richard Foster, Trevor Hudson, Rich Villodas, and Dallas Willard, Brian explores how curiosity creates pathways to deeper relationships with God, others, and ourselves. The episode examines why many Christians struggle with curiosity, how fear and busyness suppress it, and why asking thoughtful questions often leads to greater healing, freedom, intimacy, and transformation.
Ep 77: Courageous Curiosity (GH)
Why does curiosity matter so much in discipleship?
In this Greenhouse discussion, Brian Fisher and Kyle Moody continue the conversation from Episode 76 by exploring courageous curiosity as a key characteristic of deep discipleship. Together they discuss why many modern churches struggle to cultivate depth, how fear and busyness keep us near the surface, and why real spiritual formation requires time, trust, and honest questions.
The conversation moves through several layers of curiosity: asking difficult questions of God, becoming more curious about Scripture, learning to ask deeper questions in marriage and close relationships, and practicing Heartview by becoming more curious about our own stories, desires, wounds, and patterns.
Ep 78: Kingdom Dwellers – Particularity
Why does being known matter so much in Christian community?
In this episode, Brian Fisher continues the Kingdom Dwellers mini-series by exploring the idea of particularity: the practice of noticing, pursuing, and knowing someone as a unique person. Drawing from stories about a doctor’s office, a vacuum salesman, Zacchaeus, the woman with the issue of blood, and the words of Curt Thompson, Dallas Willard, and Wendell Berry, Brian reflects on the deep human need to be known and securely loved.
The episode contrasts value-exchange relationships with the way Jesus particularized people. Rather than treating people as numbers, roles, prospects, donors, or problems to solve, Jesus noticed the one. He sought people out, listened to their hearts, and invited them into a wholly different way of life.
Ep 79: Particularity (GH)
What does it mean to be truly known in Christian community?
In this Greenhouse discussion, Brian Fisher, Kyle Moody, and Dr. Tim Boswell continue the conversation from Episode 78 by exploring particularity: the practice of intentionally noticing and pursuing someone as a unique person. Together they reflect on why being seen, known, and loved is essential to deep discipleship.
The conversation explores loneliness inside and outside the church, the courage required to ask deeper questions, and why many people long to be noticed but fear being truly known. Brian, Kyle, and Tim discuss how churches, families, friendships, and Greenhouses can either reinforce isolation or become places where people are lovingly pursued.
Ep 80: Kingdom Dwellers – Release Control
Why is letting go of control to God so difficult?
In this episode, Brian Fisher continues the Kingdom Dwellers mini-series by exploring one of the most challenging qualities of deep discipleship: releasing control. Many of us attempt to control situations, conversations, relationships, reputations, finances, emotions, and even God Himself. But beneath that need for control may be unresolved sorrow, suffering, anxiety, and hidden losses we have never allowed ourselves to feel.
Drawing from Hinds’ Feet on High Places, Curt Thompson, Adam Young, and the life of Jesus, Brian explores why anxiety and control often function as ways to avoid helplessness and pain. He also reflects on Jesus’ extraordinary freedom—His refusal to manipulate, perform, defend Himself, or control outcomes.
Ep 81: Release Control (GH)
Why do Christians still struggle with anxiety and control?
In this Greenhouse discussion, Brian Fisher and Kyle Moody continue the conversation from Episode 80 by exploring the relationship between anxiety, control, suffering, lament, and trust in God. Together they ask why many Christians and churches struggle to talk honestly about mental illness, depression, and anxiety, even though these struggles are common inside and outside the church.
The conversation explores Adam Young’s idea that anxiety may be connected to a deep reservoir of unfelt emotions, especially unresolved sorrow, grief, anger, and loss. Brian and Kyle also discuss how lament, trusted community, and honest prayer can help reconnect our hearts to God when we feel abandoned, disappointed, or afraid.
Ep 82: Confessions of a Deconstructing Lifelong Christian
Can Christian deconstruction become part of deep discipleship?
In this episode, Brian Fisher takes a brief pause from the Kingdom Dwellers mini-series to reflect on church, career, family, disappointment, and the difficult journey of spiritual formation. Drawing from The Critical Journey, Brian explores why many Christians eventually hit the Wall—where the familiar rhythms of church, service, sermons, and leadership no longer seem to sustain the deeper work God is doing in the heart.
The episode considers different meanings of Christian deconstruction, from leaving the faith altogether to questioning inherited theological systems, church models, and assumptions about spiritual maturity. Brian reflects on why the modern church often serves people well in the first three stages of formation but may struggle to guide people through the Journey Inward.
Ep 83: Confessions of a Deconstructing Lifelong Christian (GH)
Can Christian deconstruction be healthy?
In this Greenhouse discussion, Brian Fisher, Kyle Moody, and Dr. Tim Boswell continue the conversation from Episode 82 by exploring deconstruction, control, the Wall, and the painful work of spiritual formation. Together they consider whether deconstruction always means losing faith, or whether some forms of deconstruction may be part of Jesus’ deeper work in the heart.
The conversation draws on The Critical Journey, the stages of spiritual formation, and the image of Eustace Scrubb being “descaled” by Aslan in The Voyage of the Dawn Treader. Brian, Kyle, and Tim discuss how disappointment, unmet expectations, church frustration, suffering, and the loss of control can expose hidden ideas that need to be dismantled and rebuilt.
Ep 84: Kingdom Dwellers – Restful in the Tension
How do we find rest when following Jesus creates real tension?
In this episode, Brian Fisher resumes the Kingdom Dwellers mini-series by exploring another hidden quality of deep discipleship: becoming restful in the tension. Many Christians hold sincere beliefs about God’s goodness, faithfulness, and trustworthiness, yet our deeper ideas and desires do not always align with those beliefs. When suffering, unanswered prayer, difficult Bible passages, disappointment, or the problem of evil enter the story, that disconnection creates tension.
Drawing from Heartview, Paul’s thorn in the flesh, Job, Jacob, C.S. Lewis, and Albert Haase, Brian considers three common responses to spiritual tension: saying “It’s all good,” saying “It’s like Job,” or taking the harder path of wrestling with God.
That gap creates tension.
And the question isn’t how to eliminate it. The question is: how do we live there?
In this episode, we explore why deep disciples don’t avoid tension—they learn to rest in it. Not through clichés or quick answers, but through wrestling with God until something real is formed in them.
Ep 85: Restful in the Tension (GH)
How do we wrestle with God in suffering without losing faith?
In this Greenhouse discussion, Brian Fisher and Kyle Moody continue the conversation from Episode 84 by exploring what it means to become restful in the middle of spiritual tension. Together they discuss hard Bible passages, unanswered questions, suffering, Christian clichés, Job, Jacob, and the danger of rushing too quickly to phrases like “God is good all the time” or “His ways are higher than ours.”
The conversation considers why many Christians feel afraid to question God honestly, especially when they are angry, confused, disappointed, or in pain. Brian and Kyle reflect on how real spiritual maturity often comes not by avoiding tension, but by entering it with God and trusted community.
Ep 86: Kingdom Dwellers – Inside Out
How do we change culture from the inside out?
In this episode, Brian Fisher continues the Kingdom Dwellers mini-series by exploring another hidden quality of deep discipleship: understanding that real transformation begins in the heart and moves outward. A deep disciple recognizes that families, churches, workplaces, institutions, and cultures are shaped by ideas—some rooted in darkness and some rooted in light.
Drawing from the Bible’s treatment of slavery, the Sermon on the Mount, Glen Scrivener’s The Air We Breathe, the Gospel of the Kingdom, and the Soil & Roots framework of ideas in the air and ideas in the soil, Brian asks how corrupt systems are actually transformed.
Ep 87: Inside Out (GH)
How does culture change?
In this Greenhouse discussion, Brian Fisher and Dr. Tim Boswell continue the conversation from Episode 86 by exploring how cultures, systems, and institutions are shaped by the ideas and people within them. Together they discuss churches, healthcare, politics, denominations, families, and the ways systems can either honor or diminish the individual.
The conversation returns to a central Soil & Roots conviction: transformation begins in the heart and moves outward. Systems are not merely faceless machines. They are formed by collective ideas, assumptions, habits, and behaviors. If those ideas are rooted in darkness, the system will eventually reflect darkness. If they are rooted in light, the system can become more humanizing, loving, and life-giving.
Ep 88: Kingdon Dwellers – Suffering Well
How do we suffer well when life brings pain, sorrow, anxiety, depression, or loss?
In this episode, Brian Fisher continues the Kingdom Dwellers mini-series by exploring another hidden quality of deep discipleship: learning how to suffer well. Suffering is not good in itself, and followers of Jesus are not invited to pretend pain is easy, noble, or simple. Yet suffering often becomes part of the long journey into deeper spiritual formation.
Drawing from C.S. Lewis’s The Problem of Pain, Hinds’ Feet on High Places, The Miraculous Journey of Edward Tulane, Psalm 13, and Curt Thompson’s work on suffering in community, Brian asks what it means to move through pain with honesty, hope, and trusted relationships.
Ep 89: Suffering Well (GH)
What happens when we suffer alone?
In this Greenhouse discussion, Brian Fisher, Kyle Moody, and Dr. Tim Boswell continue the conversation from Episode 88 by exploring suffering, authenticity, community, and the slow work of becoming more like Jesus. Each of them reflects on recent seasons of pain, including physical illness, family struggles, financial pressure, uncertainty, and concern for children.
The conversation considers how modern Christian communities sometimes respond to suffering with quick verses, easy answers, or spiritual clichés. While Scripture is true and deeply important, pain often needs more than a Romans 8:28 “bomb.” It needs presence, compassion, honesty, lament, and people willing to sit with us in the ache.
Ep 90: Kingdom Dwellers – Idea Revolutionaries
How did Jesus change the world?
In this episode, Brian Fisher concludes the Kingdom Dwellers mini-series by exploring one final hidden quality of deep disciples: they learn to recognize and transform the ideas that shape people, churches, and cultures. Jesus did not merely teach better behavior. He challenged the unspoken assumptions beneath behavior—the ideas in the air of His culture and the ideas in the soil of individual hearts.
Drawing from the Soil & Roots framework of Ideas in the Air and Ideas in the Soil, Brian explores how Jesus confronted cultural assumptions about value, identity, power, gender, dignity, and human worth. His treatment of women in the first century is one powerful example. In a culture where women were often treated as inferior or disposable, Jesus honored, welcomed, taught, healed, and entrusted them.
Ep 91: Idea Revolutionaries (GH)
Why does the cultural context of the Bible matter?
In this Greenhouse discussion, Brian Fisher and Kyle Moody continue the conversation from Episode 90 by exploring Jesus as the great transformer of hidden assumptions. The episode returns to the Soil & Roots framework of Ideas in the Air and Ideas in the Soil, asking how cultural assumptions shape the way people read Scripture, understand Jesus, and interpret the world.
Kyle begins by asking what it means that people from Moses to John were “breathing different air” than we are today. That question opens the door to a deeper conversation about how every culture carries unspoken assumptions about value, identity, power, gender, purpose, family, authority, and human dignity.
Ep 92: Heaven is a Place on Earth
In this episode, Brian continues Season 4’s exploration of the Forgotten Kingdom by asking whether our ideas about heaven match the biblical story. Many Christians imagine eternity as a disembodied spiritual realm far removed from earth, bodies, work, culture, nations, creation, and ordinary life. But the Bible points toward something much fuller: resurrection, restoration, and the final joining of heaven and earth.
Drawing from Michael Vlach, Anthony Hoekema, Randy Alcorn, Howard Snyder, N.T. Wright, the Garden of Eden, the tabernacle, the temple, Jesus, and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, this episode explores heaven as the place where God dwells—and the New Heaven and New Earth as the final consummation of the Kingdom.
Ep 93: Heaven is a Place on Earth (GH)
What is heaven like according to the Bible?
In this Greenhouse discussion, Brian, Handsome Kyle, and Doc continue the conversation from Episode 92 by exploring our assumptions about heaven, the afterlife, the New Heaven and New Earth, and the Kingdom of God. They reflect on the images many Christians absorbed growing up: clouds, harps, pearly gates, disembodied spirits, and an eternal worship service disconnected from earth.
The conversation asks whether those ideas match the biblical picture of resurrection, restored creation, renewed culture, embodied life, and heaven coming to earth. Brian, Handsome Kyle, and Doc also discuss why our view of heaven matters now. If eternity is not escape from creation but the restoration of creation, then our lives, work, relationships, art, culture, and discipleship today carry deeper meaning.
Ep 94: Thy Forgotten Kingdom Come!
What does “Thy Kingdom come” mean?
In this second-to-last episode of Season 4, Brian begins wrapping up the Forgotten Kingdom by returning to the Lord’s Prayer. When Jesus teaches us to pray, “Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven,” what exactly are we asking God to do?
After reviewing the Soil & Roots journey through the Great Omission, the Discipleship Dilemma, the Formation Gap, and the Forgotten Kingdom, Brian explores the meaning of the Kingdom through the four relationships: with God, others, ourselves, and creation/culture.
Ep 95: Thy Forgotten Kingdom Come! (GH)
What does the kingdom of God on earth look like?
In this final episode of Season 4, Brian and Doc close the Forgotten Kingdom by reflecting on the season’s major themes: the Great Omission, the Discipleship Dilemma, the Formation Gap, and the Kingdom of God as the cosmic restoration of all things.
The conversation revisits the “re-words” of the Kingdom—redeem, restore, reconcile, renew, and reintegrate—and asks what it means to see God’s reign not only in church services or explicitly spiritual activities, but in ordinary life. Creation, culture, family, work, beauty, meals, art, music, relationships, and even small acts of goodness all belong inside the King’s world.
Season 5: Conversations
Explore Season 5 of the Soil & Roots Podcast featuring conversations about Christian Spiritual Formation with authors, pastors, spiritual directors, and practitioners. Each interview is paired with a Greenhouse discussion episode that helps connect the insights to deep discipleship and everyday life.
Soul Care and Spiritual Formation w/ Adam Ormord | Ep 96
What is soul care, and why does it matter for spiritual formation?
In Episode 96, Brian opens Season 5, Conversations, with Adam Ormord, founder of LifePoint Resources. Adam is a pastor, spiritual director, and spiritual formation guide who helps pastors, leaders, and everyday followers of Jesus pay attention to the condition of their souls.
The conversation explores Christian spiritual formation as a lifelong process of experiencing God’s love and being formed into the image of Christ for the sake of the world. Adam and Brian discuss why discipleship is often reduced to information transfer or short-term programs, and why becoming more like Jesus requires time, relational safety, story, experience, and the slow work of God in the inner person.
Ep 97: Soul Care (GH)
What is the relationship between spiritual formation and soul care?
In this Greenhouse episode, Brian, Handsome Kyle, and Doc continue the conversation from Episode 96 with Adam Ormord. They reflect on Adam’s definition of Christian spiritual formation as a lifelong process of experiencing God’s love and being formed into the image of Christ for the sake of the world.
The conversation explores why discipleship cannot be reduced to short-term programs, intellectual agreement, or religious performance. Becoming more like Jesus requires participation with the Holy Spirit, but it also requires receiving love, living in trusted community, paying attention to the whole person, and allowing God to reinterpret our stories.
Brian, Handsome Kyle, and Doc also discuss soul care as the practice of asking deeper questions: How is your soul? Where are you connected or disconnected? Are you living from control or connection? The episode explores why story, Scripture, community, silence, and relational safety are all essential to deep discipleship.
Ep 98: The Critical Journey w/ Dr. Jim Reiter
What is The Critical Journey, and why does it matter for deep discipleship?
In Episode 98, Brian talks with Dr. Jim Reiter about The Critical Journey, the well-known spiritual formation framework developed by Janet Hagberg and Robert Guelich. The book describes six stages in the life of faith, including awakening to God, learning the faith, productive service, the inward journey, the outward journey, and the life of love.
Brian and Jim explore why many churches are well equipped for the first three stages of faith but often struggle to guide people through Stages 4, 5, and 6. Those later stages tend to involve the Wall, doubt, disillusionment, deconstruction, deeper self-awareness, and a more personal encounter with God. They are often messy, slow, and difficult to manage inside church systems built around programs, sermons, volunteers, and institutional growth.
Ep 99: The Critical Journey w/ Dr. Jim Reiter (GH)
What happens when we move through the early stages of faith but are not guided into the deeper ones?
In this Greenhouse episode, Brian, Handsome Kyle, and Doc continue the conversation from Episode 98 with Dr. Jim Reiter on The Critical Journey. They explore the six stages of faith, the Wall, and why many modern churches are well equipped for awakening, learning, and service, but often struggle to guide people through the inward journey, deeper self-awareness, and the life of love.
The conversation asks what happens to individuals, churches, and culture when discipleship stops at Stage 3. If the later stages involve wrestling, suffering, deconstruction, character formation, and deeper union with God, then neglecting those stages has real consequences. Brian, Handsome Kyle, and Doc discuss church safety, pastoral scandals, celebrity church culture, the rise of the “dones,” and why being right is not the same as being formed.
Ep 100! Deep Discipleship & the Redemption of Civilization
What happens to individuals, churches, and culture when Christians are not deeply formed?
In this special bonus episode, Brian celebrates Episode 100 by stepping back from the normal Season 5 flow and revisiting the major Soil & Roots journey so far: the Great Omission, hidden ideas, the Discipleship Dilemma, the Formation Gap, and the Forgotten Kingdom.
The episode asks a simple but urgent question: so what? If many Christians are not being guided into deep discipleship, what does it actually cost us? Brian argues that the lack of deep discipleship is not merely a church problem. It affects marriages, families, leadership, institutions, communities, creation, culture, and civilization.
Ep 101: Deep Discipleship & the Redemption of Civilization (GH)
Why does deep discipleship matter for culture, not just for personal faith?
In this Greenhouse episode, Brian, Handsome Kyle, and Doc continue the conversation from Episode 100 by asking the “so what?” question at a deeper level. If the Great Omission is real, and many Christians are not being intentionally formed to become more like Jesus, what does that actually cost us?
The conversation begins personally. Doc reflects on the ache of wanting more, the need for trusted people to ask honest questions with, and the wounds many of us carry alone. Handsome Kyle describes how deep discipleship has helped him become more fully himself, with Jesus turning up the volume on who he was created to be. Brian reflects on his own need to become more awake to his heart and the hearts of others.
The episode then turns outward, exploring how hidden ideas shape not only individuals but also churches, politics, education, culture, and civilization. Brian, Handsome Kyle, and Doc discuss integration, Christian fatalism, the Kingdom of God, the danger of simply “waiting it out,” and why Jesus’ restoration mission is bigger than rescue alone.
Ep 102: Have We Lost the Plot? w/ Zach Leighton
What role does Christian storytelling play in deep discipleship?
In Episode 102, Brian talks with Zach Leighton, founder of Reliant Creative and co-founder of Kingdom Stories, about the importance of story, testimony, and narrative in the life of the church. Zach has spent more than a decade helping churches, ministries, and nonprofits around the world communicate more faithfully and effectively through story.
This conversation returns to the Discipleship Dilemma from Season 2: your story matters. Becoming more like Jesus is not only about knowing His heart more deeply; it also involves knowing our own hearts, histories, wounds, joys, conflicts, and transformations. This is the old theological idea of double knowledge — knowing God and knowing ourselves.
Zach argues that the church has largely lost the practice of storytelling. Much of modern Christian communication centers on teaching, doctrine, apologetics, data, models, and strategies. Those things matter, but story reaches the heart in a different way. Jesus taught through story. Scripture is filled with story. Human beings are formed by story.
Ep 103: Have We Lost the Plot? w/ Zach Leighton (GH)
In this Greenhouse episode, Brian, Handsome Kyle, and Doc continue the conversation from Episode 102 with Zach Leighton on Christian storytelling, testimony, and the role of story in deep discipleship. They explore why story is essential to how we understand God, ourselves, our communities, and the larger narrative of Scripture.
The conversation asks whether the modern church has lost touch with the power of testimony. In many church settings, story is reduced to a dramatic conversion account or a rare platform moment. But our testimonies also include the ordinary and ongoing ways God forms us: moments of struggle, healing, conflict, joy, suffering, provision, wrestling, and growth.
Brian, Handsome Kyle, and Doc discuss why safe communities are needed for people to tell their stories honestly. They return to the Greenhouse question, “How is it going with your soul?” as a simple practice that opens space for weekly testimony, vulnerability, and attention to God’s work in real life.
Ep 104: Spiritual Formation and Children w/ Emily Riffe
Author and innovator Emily Riffe joins the podcast today to explore these and other questions. She draws heavily on the work and thinking of British educational reformer Charlotte Mason, who held to a very high view of the personhood of the child and the potential of human beings as image-bearers of God. What role do the home, nature, creation, culture, and self-knowledge play in the spiritual formation of our children?
Ep 105: Spiritual Formation and Children w/ Emily Riffe (GH)
What does it mean to disciple children as whole persons?
In this Greenhouse episode, Brian, Handsome Kyle, and Doc continue the conversation from Episode 104 with Emily Riffe on spiritual formation for children. Drawing from Emily’s reflections on Charlotte Mason, education, nature, habits, and character formation, the conversation asks how parents, teachers, churches, and communities can better help children become people who love Jesus.
The episode challenges the idea that children are empty vessels waiting to be filled with information. Children are already whole persons made in the image of God, with unique personalities, affinities, desires, and God-given capacities. Discipling children is not merely about giving them more Bible facts, better curriculum, or higher test scores. It is about creating an atmosphere where their hearts, minds, bodies, imaginations, relationships, and habits can be formed toward love.
Ep 106: This Beautiful Mess w/ Matt Davis
What happens when the church wounds the people it was meant to form?
In Episode 106, Brian talks with Matt Davis, founder of Pastoral Transitions and co-host of the Life After Ministry podcast. Matt is a former megachurch pastor whose own ministry exit led him into deep pain, disorientation, and ultimately a new calling: walking with pastors, leaders, and families who have been hurt by church systems, ministry failure, burnout, or painful transitions.
This conversation returns to the Formation Gap from Season 3. Human beings are formed through time, habits, community, intimacy, and instruction. But what happens when church institutions provide teaching, worship, programs, and structure without the kind of relational spaces where people are truly known, restored, and formed?
Brian and Matt explore church hurt and healing, pastoral burnout, moral failure, institutional self-protection, megachurch systems, the pressure placed on modern pastors, and the difference between belonging to a crowd and being known in a community. They also ask whether the modern role of pastor has drifted from the biblical vision of shepherding and whether deep discipleship can happen in environments where people remain anonymous.
Ep 107: This Beautiful Mess (GH)
What does healing from church hurt actually require?
In this Greenhouse episode, Brian, Handsome Kyle, and Doc continue the conversation from Episode 106 with Matt Davis. Matt’s story opened up a raw and necessary discussion about church hurt, pastoral burnout, ministry failure, institutional self-protection, and the people who are wounded when church systems value the institution more than the individual.
This follow-up conversation asks what comes next. How should we think about pastors? Have we turned the pastoral office into a professional class or a platform role instead of a shepherding role? Can people be deeply formed if they are part of a church where no one really knows them? And why do so many churches have beautiful on-ramps for new people but confusing, painful, or graceless off-ramps for people who are burned out, wounded, or leaving?
Brian, Handsome Kyle, and Doc also explore whether the modern sermon has been asked to carry more formative weight than it can bear. Instruction matters, but spiritual formation does not happen through instruction alone. People need time, habits, community, intimacy, and spaces where they can confess, wrestle, suffer, wait, and be known.
Ep 108: The Kingdom Regardless w/ Dr. Darrell Bock
What does the kingdom of God have to do with the end times?
In Episode 108, Brian talks with Dr. Darrell Bock, Senior Research Professor of New Testament Studies at Dallas Theological Seminary and Executive Director of Cultural Engagement, about the kingdom of God, Israel, eschatology, and Christian mission.
This conversation builds on Season 4, The Forgotten Kingdom, where Soil & Roots explored why the kingdom of God is central to the mission of Jesus and the life of deep discipleship. Brian and Dr. Bock discuss Progressive Dispensationalism, how it differs from more traditional dispensational views, and why our views of the end times are not merely side issues. They shape how we understand Jesus’ purpose, the church’s mission, Israel, the nations, creation, culture, and our daily lives.
Dr. Bock offers a gracious and bridge-building perspective. He affirms a future for Israel, the importance of the church’s witness now, and the need for followers of Jesus to represent the kingdom regardless of how history unfolds. The church is called to be a “sneak preview” of what is coming: a reconciled people who show the world the way of peace, justice, love, and Shalom.
Ep 109: The Kingdom Regardless (GH)
Why do our views of the end times matter for discipleship?
In this Greenhouse episode, Brian, Handsome Kyle, and Doc continue the conversation from Episode 108 with Dr. Darrell Bock on the kingdom of God, Progressive Dispensationalism, Israel, cultural engagement, and Christian mission.
The conversation asks why end-times views are not merely abstract theology or speculative debate. How we understand the future shapes how we live today. If the mission of Jesus is only a rescue operation from a doomed world, we may relate to culture, creation, justice, institutions, and our neighbors in one way. If the Kingdom is already breaking into the world through Jesus and His people, we may live with a very different sense of purpose.
Brian, Handsome Kyle, and Doc explore the difference between “splitter” and “joiner” approaches to Scripture, how Christians think about Israel and the church, why some followers of Jesus hold to a rapture and tribulation while others do not, and how these views shape our understanding of the cross, resurrection, new creation, and the Kingdom of God.
Ep 110: The Desperate Need for Deep People (Bonus)
What is deep discipleship, and why does the world desperately need deep people?
In this Season 5 bonus episode, Brian steps back from the Conversations series to review the Soil & Roots journey so far. Drawing from Dallas Willard’s language of the Great Omission and Richard Foster’s call for “deep people,” this episode returns to the central question behind Soil & Roots: how do people become more like Jesus from the inside out?
Brian reviews the Great Omission, the three primary problems explored in Seasons 2–4, and the Soil & Roots framework of story, community, and purpose. The Discipleship Dilemma reminds us that God’s story and our own stories matter. The Formation Gap reminds us that hearts are formed through time, habit, community, intimacy, and instruction. The Forgotten Kingdom reminds us that Jesus’ purpose is not merely private salvation, but the increasing arrival of His Kingdom into every corner of human existence.
The episode then asks what a deep person actually is. A deep person is not necessarily the most theologically informed, most charismatic, most active, or most religiously busy person in the room. A deep person is someone increasingly awake and attuned to God, self, others, creation, and culture.
Ep 111: The Desperate Need for Deep People (GH)
What makes a person spiritually deep?
In this Greenhouse episode, Brian and Handsome Kyle continue the conversation from Episode 110, “The Desperate Need for Deep People.” That bonus episode defined a deep person as someone increasingly awake and attuned to God, self, others, creation, and culture. Episode 111 presses further into what that actually means.
Brian and Handsome Kyle explore why spiritual depth is not the same as theological knowledge, religious activity, church involvement, or having impressive answers. A deep person is someone who listens beneath the surface — to the heart of God, to their own heart, to the hearts of others, and to the world God has made.
The conversation also returns to one of the most neglected themes in modern discipleship: self-knowledge. Drawing from the long Christian tradition, Brian argues that knowing God and knowing ourselves are deeply connected. We cannot love others well if we refuse to know our own stories, wounds, desires, assumptions, fears, and patterns.
Ep 112: The Desperate Need for Deep Communities (Bonus)
In this Season 5 bonus episode, Brian continues the reflection from Episodes 110 and 111 by exploring the desperate need for deep communities. If a deep disciple is someone increasingly awake and attuned to God, self, others, creation, and culture, then the next question is obvious: what kind of community can actually form that kind of person?
Brian argues that deep Christian community requires more than sermons, Bible studies, programs, weekend services, or casual small groups. Those things may have value, but they do not automatically create the vulnerability, honesty, safety, time, intimacy, and shared life necessary for genuine spiritual formation.
This episode returns to the Great Omission, the Formation Gap, the Critical Journey, the “nones” and “dones,” and the Soil & Roots Greenhouse model. Brian asks whether many modern Christian institutions are structured to produce deep people, or whether their size, pace, power dynamics, and dependence on professional Christians can sometimes work against the very formation they hope to encourage.
Ep 113: The Desperate Need for Deep Communities (GH)
What does a true spiritual formation community look like?
In this Greenhouse episode, Brian, Handsome Kyle, and Doc continue the conversation from Episode 112, “The Desperate Need for Deep Communities.” That bonus episode asked whether many modern Christian institutions are structured to form people of depth, or whether deep discipleship requires smaller, more vulnerable, more intimate communities.
Episode 113 presses into the practical questions. What do we mean by “deep”? What do we mean by “community”? How can we tell whether a group is actually forming people into the image of Jesus, rather than simply sharing information, attending events, or creating a religious social club?
The conversation explores the Soil & Roots Greenhouse model, the five key elements of formation, the difference between knowledge and knowing, the need for vulnerability and trust, and the fruit that can emerge when a small group of people commits to being known over time. Brian, Handsome Kyle, and Doc also discuss why many people long for this kind of community but struggle to pursue it: church structures, fear of change, resistance to vulnerability, confusion about discipleship, and uncertainty about where to begin.
Season 6: The Object of Our Formation
Explore Season 6 of the Soil & Roots Podcast and discover how Becoming Like Jesus shapes spiritual formation, identity, love, trust, and the lifelong journey of deep discipleship.
Ep 114: (Season 6) How Did I Get Here?
What does it actually mean to become like Jesus?
In Episode 114, Brian opens Season 6 of Soil & Roots: The Object of Our Formation. After five seasons exploring the Great Omission, the Three Primary Problems, Heartview, Greenhouses, and the need for deep discipleship, this episode turns toward the central question underneath it all: Who is Jesus, really, and what kind of people should we expect to become as we are formed into His image?
The episode begins with a 30,000-foot recap of the Soil & Roots journey so far. Brian revisits the Great Omission, the Forgotten Kingdom, the Discipleship Dilemma, the Formation Gap, the Five Key Elements, hidden ideas and desires, and the Heartview process. Each of these frameworks points toward the same goal: becoming people who think, act, relate, and love more like Jesus from the inside out.
Ep 115: How Did I Get Here? (GH)
What is the difference between doing what Jesus did and being like Jesus?
In this Greenhouse episode, Brian, Handsome Kyle, and Doc continue the conversation from Episode 114, the launch of Season 6: The Object of Our Formation. Season 6 explores who Jesus really is and what qualities we should expect to develop as we become more like Him.
The conversation begins by revisiting the Soil & Roots journey so far: the Great Omission, the Three Primary Problems, deep discipleship, hidden ideas, the Formation Gap, the Forgotten Kingdom, and the Discipleship Dilemma. But instead of staying focused on the problems, this season turns toward the ultimate answer: Jesus Himself.
Brian, Handsome Kyle, and Doc wrestle with two core questions for the season. First, what is the difference between being like Jesus and simply doing Christian things? Spiritual formation is not merely a checklist of actions, habits, service projects, or sermon applications. The goal is not just to imitate Jesus externally, but to be formed from the inside out so that we increasingly think, relate, love, and respond like Him.
Ep 116: What is Love? (Baby, Don’t Hurt Me)
What is love in the Bible?
In Episode 116, Brian continues Season 6, The Object of Our Formation, by asking a deceptively difficult question: what does it actually mean to love like Jesus?
The answer may seem obvious at first. God is love. God is good. Followers of Jesus are called to love God, love others, love ourselves rightly, and participate in the goodness of His Kingdom. But in a fractured and polarized culture, words like “love” and “goodness” are not nearly as simple as they sound. What one person calls loving, another may call harmful. What one person calls good, another may call unjust.
This episode explores why we cannot define God by our own assumptions about love and goodness. Instead, we must allow God’s revealed character — in Scripture, creation, and ultimately Jesus — to define love and goodness for us. For the rest of Season 6, Soil & Roots uses this working definition: love is seeking someone’s goodness based on God’s ideas.
Ep 117: What is Love? (Baby, Don’t Hurt Me) (GH)
What is goodness in the Bible?
In this Greenhouse episode, Brian, Handsome Kyle, and Doc continue the conversation from Episode 116, “What Is Love in the Bible?” That episode offered a working definition for Season 6: love is seeking someone’s goodness based on God’s ideas. Episode 117 presses into the question underneath that definition: what do we mean by goodness?
The conversation begins in Genesis 1, where God repeatedly calls creation good, and then very good. But what happens after Genesis 3? Is creation still good? Are human beings still good in any sense? Or has sin so corrupted everything that goodness only exists somewhere else, someday later?
Brian, Handsome Kyle, and Doc explore original goodness, the corruption of sin, the goodness of creation, the image of God, and the danger of reducing people to “dirty rotten sinners” without also remembering that God made human beings with glory, value, and purpose. Sin fractures relationship, but it does not erase the goodness of what God made or His desire to redeem and restore it.
Ep 118: A Voice From the Clouds
What would it mean to live with secure attachment to God?
In Episode 118, Brian continues Season 6, The Object of Our Formation, by exploring one of Jesus’ most compelling qualities: His relational and emotional security. Jesus is not anxious, rattled, manipulated, needy, or driven by what other people think of Him. He lives from a rock-solid sense of identity as the beloved Son of the Father.
This episode begins at Jesus’ baptism, where the Father declares, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.” That moment reveals something central about Jesus: His actions flow from secure attachment to the Father. He knows who He is, whose He is, and what He is worth.
Brian explores how relational insecurity often shows up in us through perfectionism, people-pleasing, control, anxiety, avoidance, or the need to prove ourselves. Jesus, by contrast, acts with stunning freedom. He treats each person with particularity. He does not follow a formula, a script, or a program. He listens, discerns, withdraws, confronts, heals, teaches, and loves from a secure heart.
Ep 119: A Voice from the Clouds (GH)
What does it really mean to abide in Jesus?
In this Greenhouse episode, Brian, Handsome Kyle, and Doc continue the conversation from Episode 118 on Jesus’ relational and emotional security. If Jesus is the most secure person in human history — unshaken by rejection, manipulation, pressure, praise, criticism, or failure — then what does that reveal about abiding in the Father’s love?
The conversation returns to the Father’s words at Jesus’ baptism: “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.” Jesus does not merely know this intellectually. He lives from it. His identity is rooted in belovedness, and His actions flow from secure attachment to the Father.
Brian, Handsome Kyle, and Doc explore why many followers of Jesus struggle to live from that same security. We may believe we are loved by God, but our hearts often tell a different story. Circumstances, failure, shame, self-loathing, anxiety, people-pleasing, and the need for control can reveal places where we are not yet resting in the Father’s love.
Ep 120: The Beloved
What does it mean to be beloved by God?
In Episode 120, Brian continues Season 6, The Object of Our Formation, by exploring the lived reality underneath Jesus’ relational security: belovedness. Jesus was not anxious, defensive, manipulated, or controlled by other people’s opinions because He lived from a deep, abiding attachment to the Father. He knew who He was. He knew whose He was. He lived as the beloved Son.
But what about us?
This episode asks what it would mean for followers of Jesus to experience belovedness not merely as a doctrine, but as a reality that settles into the heart. Many of us intellectually believe we are God’s children, yet our thoughts, emotions, anxiety, anger, loneliness, fear, and relational patterns reveal that our hearts may not yet fully rest in that truth.
Ep 121: The Beloved (GH)
What does it mean to experience God’s love, not merely believe in it?
In this Greenhouse episode, Brian, Handsome Kyle, and Doc continue the conversation from Episode 120, “Beloved by God.” Season 6 is exploring Jesus as the object of our formation, and this episode presses deeper into one of Jesus’ most foundational realities: He lived from the experience of being beloved by the Father.
The conversation centers on the difference between intellectual agreement and heart experience. We may believe theologically that God loves us, provides for us, calls us His children, and invites us into His family. But our hearts may tell a different story. Anxiety, insecurity, shame, disappointment, illness, financial stress, grief, and suffering often reveal places where our hearts have not yet experienced what our minds say is true.
Brian, Handsome Kyle, and Doc share personal stories about provision, insecurity, chronic illness, unmet expectations, fatherhood, mentoring, spiritual friendship, and what it means to look back over our stories and recognize God’s presence even when we could not see Him at the time.
Ep 122: A Riddle Wrapped in a Mystery
Why was Jesus so mysterious?
In Episode 122, Brian continues Season 6, The Object of Our Formation, by exploring one of Jesus’ most intriguing and often overlooked qualities: His enigmatic nature. Jesus did not always speak plainly. He did not always answer questions directly. He taught in parables, riddles, stories, and sayings that confused even His closest followers.
This may feel strange to those of us formed by modern Western assumptions. We often want clarity, direct application, and a simple answer we can immediately use. But Jesus frequently taught in ways that invited people to wrestle, seek, wonder, and press closer. His mystery was not a wall meant to keep people out. It was an invitation into depth.
This episode explores Jesus’ use of parables, enigmas, ambiguity, and wisdom. It also examines how the Bible’s wisdom literature, especially Proverbs, challenges our modern desire for simple formulas. Sometimes wisdom requires discernment, context, patience, and relational attunement rather than universal application.
Ep 123: A Riddle Wrapped in a Mystery (GH)
What do we do with the enigmatic Jesus?
In this Greenhouse episode, Brian, Handsome Kyle, and Doc continue the conversation from Episode 122, “The Mystery of Jesus.” Season 6 is exploring Jesus as the object of our formation, and this episode presses into one of His most fascinating and unsettling traits: Jesus is often mysterious, puzzling, and hard to pin down.
The conversation asks whether Jesus’ enigmatic way of teaching and relating is something only He could carry, or whether those who are becoming more like Him should also become more comfortable with mystery, ambiguity, patience, and unanswered questions.
Brian, Handsome Kyle, and Doc wrestle with Jesus’ cryptic sayings, His refusal to explain Himself, His relational security, His ability to let people walk away, and His wisdom in speaking differently to different people. They also discuss whether deep disciples should sometimes resist the urge to be immediately clear, immediately right, or immediately understood.
Ep 124: Snakes and Doves
What does it mean to be wise as serpents and innocent as doves?
In Episode 124, Brian continues Season 6, The Object of Our Formation, by exploring the relational shrewdness of Jesus. Jesus did not relate to everyone the same way. Sometimes He was cryptic. Sometimes He was candid. Sometimes He withdrew. Sometimes He confronted. But He always saw beneath the surface.
This episode explores Jesus’ remarkable ability to discern the heart of a person and respond with wisdom, nuance, courage, and love. If discipleship means becoming more like Jesus, then we should expect to grow not only in innocence, but also in perception. We are invited to become people who listen deeply, discern wisely, and respond uniquely to the person in front of us.
Brian revisits the Soil & Roots practice of Heart Listening: attuning to the deeper signals beneath words, emotions, behaviors, tone, and body language. Drawing from Sherlock Holmes, the Eight Indicators, the Hebrew midwives, the parable of the shrewd manager, and Jesus’ instruction to be “wise as serpents and innocent as doves,” this episode asks what holy shrewdness might look like in the life of a deep disciple.
Ep 125: Snakes and Doves (GH)
What does relational discernment look like in real life?
In this Greenhouse episode, Brian, Doc, and Reverend Pastor Handsome Kyle continue the conversation from Episode 124 on Jesus’ relational shrewdness. Jesus did not relate to people as categories, problems, projects, or generic members of a crowd. He saw people. He listened beneath the surface. He discerned motives, wounds, hunger, resistance, and faith. Then He responded with wisdom, courage, tenderness, challenge, or silence — depending on the person and the moment.
This episode explores why that kind of relational discernment is often missing in modern Christian culture. We may prioritize sermons, systems, formulas, correct answers, and superficial connection while neglecting the slower and riskier work of authentic relationship. But if discipleship is about becoming like Jesus, then we must learn to listen like Him, discern like Him, and respond like Him.
Brian, Doc, and Handsome Kyle wrestle with Heart Listening, moral gray areas, the Hebrew midwives, the parable of the shrewd manager, legalism, honesty, biblical nuance, and the difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. They also discuss why deep discipleship requires community, vulnerability, patience, and a willingness to treat each person as uniquely beloved by God.
Ep. 126: Do-It-Yourself Log Removal
What does it mean to judge like Jesus?
In Episode 126, Brian continues Season 6, The Object of Our Formation, by exploring one of Jesus’ more uncomfortable traits: His role as judge. We all judge, and we all get judged. The question is not whether judgment exists, but whether our judgments are rooted in the ideas of the Kingdom or the hidden ideas and desires of our own hearts.
This episode wrestles with the tension between “Do not judge” and “judge with righteous judgment.” Jesus does not forbid all evaluation, discernment, correction, or moral clarity. Instead, He warns against condemnation, superiority, hypocrisy, and contempt. Before we help someone else with the speck in their eye, we must first remove the log from our own.
Brian explores judgment through the lens of Heartview, the Soil & Roots practice of paying attention to the signals our hearts give through thoughts, emotions, health, actions, relationships, words, time, and money. How we judge others — and how we react to being judged — often reveals the deeper ideas and wounds beneath the surface.
Ep 127: Do-It-Yourself Log Removal (GH)
What does it mean to judge others as a Christian?
In this Greenhouse episode, Brian, Handsome Kyle, and Doc continue the conversation from Episode 126 on Jesus as judge. Judgment is unavoidable. We judge situations, actions, ideas, motives, culture, and one another every day. The deeper question is whether our judgment reflects the heart of Jesus.
The conversation begins by revisiting the larger Soil & Roots journey: the Great Omission, deep discipleship, the Discipleship Dilemma, the Formation Gap, the Forgotten Kingdom, and Season 6’s exploration of Jesus as the object of our formation. If we are becoming more like Jesus, then we must learn not only to love like Him, but also to judge like Him.
Brian, Handsome Kyle, and Doc wrestle with why the word “judgment” often feels negative, why some forms of modern Christianity come across like the sin police, and why judgment apart from relationship can become harmful. Jesus judges with perfect knowledge of the heart. We do not. That means humility, self-examination, patience, and relational attunement are essential.
Ep 128: Gentleness on the Brute Squad
What does it really mean to be gentle?
In Episode 128, Brian continues Season 6, The Object of Our Formation, by exploring the gentleness of Jesus. Gentleness is often misunderstood as weakness, passivity, softness, or simply being nice. But in Jesus, gentleness is something far stronger. It is power restrained, strength refined, and love expressed with precision.
Drawing from Andre the Giant in The Princess Bride, Francis de Sales, The Hulk, Mr. Miyagi, Jesus on the cross, and Elijah hearing the gentle whisper of God, this episode reframes gentleness as one of the clearest marks of deep discipleship. True gentleness does not exist where there is no power. Gentleness is the ability to hold power in check and use it for love, protection, restoration, and goodness.
Brian also explores how gentleness has been distorted in Western Christianity, especially in conversations around masculinity, strength, toughness, and success. Jesus was not weak. He was the ultimate warrior, protector, and King. Yet His strength was never frantic, insecure, cruel, or self-proving.
Ep 129: Gentleness on the Brute Squad (GH)
Would Jesus talk to you the way you talk to yourself?
In this Greenhouse episode, Brian and Doc continue the conversation from Episode 128 on the gentleness of Jesus by focusing on one often-neglected area: self-gentleness. Most of us would never speak to a friend, spouse, child, or fellow disciple the way we speak to ourselves. Yet our inner talk tracks run all day, quietly shaping how we relate to God, others, creation, culture, and our own souls.
The conversation begins with the four relationships Soil & Roots often explores: God, self, others, and creation/culture. If gentleness is power restrained, then self-gentleness means restraining the power we have to curse, demean, shame, or tear down our own hearts.
Brian and Doc discuss metacognition, the uniquely human ability to think about what we think about. What do you say to yourself when you fail? When you forget something? When you sin? When you disappoint someone? Do those words sound like Jesus?
Ep 130: Rested and Relaxed
What does it mean to be relaxed like Jesus?
In Episode 130, Brian continues Season 6, The Object of Our Formation, by exploring one of Jesus’ most surprising characteristics: He is deeply relaxed. Dallas Willard once described Jesus with one word: relaxed. He is not rushed, frantic, controlling, anxious, or hurried. Even in storms, conflict, pressure, confrontation, and suffering, Jesus remains remarkably present and at ease with the Father.
This episode gathers the Season 6 portrait of Jesus so far. Jesus is emotionally secure. He lives as the Beloved. He is mysterious, relationally shrewd, discerning, just, and gentle. And beneath all of that is a settled inner life. Jesus is at home with Himself because He is at home with His Father.
Brian explores what it means for deep disciples to become relaxed from the inside out. This is not emotional numbness, passivity, or pretending life is easy. Jesus feels grief, anger, distress, joy, and compassion. But He does not live in the past, trying to rewrite what happened. He does not live in the future, trying to control what has not yet come. He lives in the present with God.
Ep 131: Rested and Relaxed (GH)
What are you still clutching?
In this Greenhouse episode, Brian, Handsome Kyle, and Doc continue the conversation from Episode 130 on being rested and relaxed like Jesus. If Jesus is remarkably calm, present, unhurried, and at ease with the Father, then what does that reveal about the kind of people we are becoming?
The conversation begins with a simple image: a raccoon trapped because it will not release the shiny object in its paw. At any moment, it could let go and be free. But it keeps clutching what it thinks it needs. Brian, Handsome Kyle, and Doc use that picture to explore surrender, control, performance, anxiety, and the things our hearts refuse to release.
This episode asks why surrender to God is so difficult, especially in a culture built around productivity, achievement, rebellion, performance, and self-protection. In many church settings, surrender is treated as a one-time conversion moment rather than an ongoing way of life. But the relaxed life of Jesus is formed through daily, experiential surrender.
Brian, Handsome Kyle, and Doc discuss trust, rest, chronic illness, performance-driven faith, David Benner, Dallas Willard, Christian busyness, intimate community, and the difference between obedience as compliance and obedience as the natural fruit of experiencing Jesus’ love.
Ep 132: My Two Sons (Bonus Episode)
How do young adults become like Jesus in a distracted, anxious, hyperconnected world?
In this bonus episode near the close of Season 6, Brian invites his two young adult sons, Caleb and Zach, into a conversation about spiritual formation across generations. Both grew up in church, but both describe a deeper awakening in young adulthood — through hardship, relationships, service, community, and the slow realization that following Jesus had to become their own journey.
Caleb and Zach share honestly about growing up in a Christian home, wrestling with shallow faith, experiencing crisis and renewal, and learning what it means to follow Jesus as young men. They talk about Jesus as comforter, His mysterious and indirect ways, God’s delight, church involvement, worship, service, small groups, and the joy of discovering that God not only loves them, but likes them and wants them involved in His Kingdom.
The conversation also explores what younger generations are facing: social media, identity confusion, institutional skepticism, shallow content, and the difference between information and real discipleship. Brian, Caleb, and Zach discuss why spiritual formation cannot happen through short videos, religious checklists, or church attendance alone. The heart is formed through time, habit, community, intimacy, instruction, experience, and relationship.
Ep 133: The Love That Surpasses Knowledge
If you are new to Soil & Roots, this may be one of the best episodes to start with. If you have been with us from the beginning, this episode connects and clarifies the major themes we’ve been wrestling with since Episode 1.
Brian revisits Dallas Willard’s concern that modern Christianity often makes converts, educates people, builds institutions, and engages people in service, but struggles to help people become genuine disciples — people who are being transformed from the inside out to think, act, relate, and love more like Jesus.
This episode also returns to the Soil & Roots framework of ideas: the hidden assumptions and experienced realities in our hearts that often govern us more deeply than our stated beliefs. True formation is not merely learning more information. The head learns through instruction, but the heart is formed through relationship and experience.
Brian then revisits the three primary problems: the Discipleship Dilemma, the Formation Gap, and the Forgotten Kingdom — or story, community, and purpose. Deep discipleship requires self-knowledge, formative community, and a recovered vision of the Kingdom of God.
Season 7: Deep Calls to Deep
Explore Season 7 of the Soil & Roots Podcast as we examine The Good Life and the conditions that make deep discipleship possible. Discover how self-knowledge, suffering, story-sharing, and other formative experiences shape us into people who increasingly experience life with God.
Ep 134 (Season 7): Rediscovering the Good Life
What kind of life did Jesus actually invite us into?
Episode 134 launches Season 7 of Soil & Roots, Deep Calls to Deep, by asking a simple but unsettling question: how do we become people of depth? Before exploring the path, Brian begins with the destination — the Good Life, or what Dallas Willard called the with-God life.
The with-God life is not merely being saved, learning more theology, attending church, or trying harder to behave. It is a daily, embodied, relational reality with God. It is a life marked by deep security, inner freedom, conversational intimacy with God, and love that flows from the inside out.
Brian explores why many followers of Jesus quietly assume this kind of life is unrealistic, reserved for spiritual elites, or simply not meant for them. Drawing from Scripture, Christian mysticism, Dallas Willard, David Benner, and everyday experience, he reframes discipleship not as more effort or better techniques, but as the risky and transformative work of receiving God’s love.
Ep 135: Rediscovering the Good Life (GH)
What is the Good Life with God?
In this first Greenhouse episode of Season 7, Brian, Handsome Kyle, and Doc continue the conversation from Episode 134, Rediscovering the Good Life. Season 7 is called Deep Calls to Deep, and it asks the central Soil & Roots question: how do we actually become people of depth?
This episode begins by clarifying what the Good Life is — and what it is not. The Good Life is not ease, prosperity, success, comfort, or a pain-free existence. It is not “your best life now” in the shallow sense. Instead, the Good Life is the with-God life: a daily, relational, embodied experience of God’s presence, love, delight, and nearness, even when life is difficult.
Brian, Handsome Kyle, and Doc wrestle with whether this kind of life is actually meant to be normal for people who follow Jesus, or whether it is only for “super-Christians” and famous mystics. They explore Dallas Willard, Christian mysticism, John 17:3, Ephesians 3, the love that surpasses knowledge, and what it means to know God in a deeply experiential way.
Ep 136: The Prodigal Son & the Christian Mystic
Why is receiving God’s love so hard?
In Episode 136, Brian continues Season 7, Deep Calls to Deep, by exploring one of the central questions of the journey into depth: if God is constantly inviting us into the Good Life, why do so few of us actually experience it?
This episode suggests that the doorway into the with-God life is not more striving, better behavior, or additional information. It is vulnerability. Drawing from David Benner, Dallas Willard, the six core ideas, and the Soil & Roots framework of unconscious formation, Brian argues that genuine transformation begins when we allow ourselves to be loved unconditionally by God.
But receiving God’s love is not as easy as it sounds. Brian names four obstacles that often keep us guarded: our need for control, our avoidance of pain, our sense of unworthiness, and our mistrust of God’s character. These obstacles are not merely intellectual doubts. They are rooted in the deeper ideas of our hearts — our unconscious assumptions about power, anthropology, value, and identity.
Ep 137: The Prodigal Son & the Christian Mystic (GH)
Why do we resist the very love that could heal us?
In this Greenhouse episode, Brian, Handsome Kyle, and Doc continue the conversation from Episode 136 on receiving God’s love, vulnerability, and the Good Life. Season 7, Deep Calls to Deep, is exploring how we become people of depth — people increasingly formed by the love of God from the inside out.
The conversation begins by revisiting the Good Life, the with-God life, Christian mysticism, and the surprising reality that many people who identify as Christians do not experience deep, daily, relational intimacy with God. If Jesus invites us into abiding peace, secure attachment, love that surpasses knowledge, and a conversational life with the Father, why does that life feel so rare?
Brian, Handsome Kyle, and Doc then move into four obstacles to receiving God’s love with vulnerability: our need for control, our avoidance of pain, our sense of shame and unworthiness, and our mistrust of God’s character. These are not merely intellectual disagreements. They are often unconscious ideas rooted in our stories, wounds, relationships, fears, and experiences.
Ep 138: Don’t Get the Wrong Idea
What do you really believe about God?
In Episode 138, Brian continues Season 7, Deep Calls to Deep, by returning to one of the central ideas of Soil & Roots: our lives are not shaped primarily by what we say we believe, but by the ideas our hearts actually assume.
Ideas are the unconscious assumptions, conclusions, and experienced realities in which our hearts are rooted. They sit beneath our belief systems and quietly shape how we relate to God, ourselves, others, and the world. We may intellectually believe that God is good, loving, safe, and trustworthy — while our hearts live as if He is distant, disappointed, unsafe, or unreliable.
This matters because Season 7 is exploring the journey into depth. If the first step toward the Good Life is receiving God’s love with vulnerability, then our true ideas about God become essential. How can we surrender to love if our hearts do not trust the One offering it?
Ep 139: Don’t Get the Wrong Idea (GH)
What if your hidden ideas about God shape your life more than your stated beliefs?
In this Greenhouse episode, Brian, Handsome Kyle, and Doc continue the conversation from Episode 138 on ideas, beliefs, and the unconscious forces that shape our discipleship. Season 7, Deep Calls to Deep, is exploring how we become people of depth — people who naturally and unconsciously think, act, relate, and love more like Jesus.
The conversation begins with Psalm 42 and the season’s theme: “Deep calls to deep.” Doc unpacks the water imagery of the psalm, reminding us that the journey into depth is not always gentle or peaceful. Sometimes God’s invitation into the Good Life comes through waves, breakers, chaos, suffering, and the painful process of being unmade and remade.
Brian, Handsome Kyle, and Doc then return to the Soil & Roots language of ideas: the assumptions, conclusions, and experienced realities in which our hearts are rooted. These hidden ideas often operate beneath our stated beliefs. We may say we trust God, believe in His goodness, and affirm His love, while our actual lives reveal a different operating system.
Ep 140: The Most Important Thing About Us: Our Hidden Ideas About God
What is God really like?
In Episode 140, Brian returns to one of the founding questions of Soil & Roots: what do we actually believe God is like? Not merely what do we say in our creeds, statements of faith, or Bible studies — but what do our hearts assume about Him?
Drawing from A.W. Tozer’s claim that our real idea of God may be buried beneath “conventional religious notions,” this episode explores why deep discipleship requires more than correct doctrine or Bible knowledge. It requires the uncovering of our hidden, often unconscious ideas about God.
Season 7, Deep Calls to Deep, is exploring how we become people of depth. Brian argues that the journey into depth depends on four necessary conditions: self-awareness, story-sharing, suffering in community, and spiritual habits. The first condition, self-awareness, begins with the painful but essential work of uncovering our true ideas about God.
This episode walks through several common distorted images of God: God as the Great Taskmaster, God as the direct cause of suffering, God as a performance-based Father, and God as an angry judge waiting to condemn. These ideas may not match our stated beliefs, but they can quietly shape our emotions, behaviors, relationships, health, words, and spiritual lives.
Ep 141: The Most Important Thing About Us: Our Hidden Ideas About God (GH)
What if your view of God shapes everything?
In this Greenhouse episode, Brian and Doc continue the conversation from Episode 140 on what God is really like and why our deepest ideas of God matter so much. Season 7, Deep Calls to Deep, is exploring how we become people of depth — people who are increasingly attuned to God, others, themselves, and the world.
The conversation begins with Richard Foster’s claim that the world does not need more talented or intelligent people as much as it needs deep people. But becoming deep is not always safe, comfortable, or tidy. The inward journey can involve pruning, tearing, fire, pain, and the slow process of being unmade and remade by God’s goodness.
Brian and Doc then explore how our view of God becomes the root system beneath nearly every other view we hold. Our theology shapes our philosophy, our politics, our view of creation, our understanding of the sacred and secular, and even how we think about suffering, the church, and the Bible.
Ep 142: Is God Good? The Hidden Doubt Many of Us Carry
Is God good, and do our hearts actually experience Him that way?
In Episode 142, Brian continues Season 7, The Good Life, by exploring one of the most powerful hidden ideas many followers of Jesus carry: the suspicion that God may not actually be good. We may consciously affirm God’s goodness, love, mercy, and faithfulness, yet our lived experience can tell another story.
Drawing from the Soil & Roots distinction between beliefs and ideas, Brian explores how hidden assumptions about God are formed through suffering, disappointment, family systems, trauma, illness, and repeated experiences. The episode considers how distrust of God’s goodness often shows up through the Eight Indicators: control, anxiety, resentment toward reality, and difficulty receiving love.
Doubting God’s Goodness (GH) | Ep 143
What do we do when we find ourselves doubting God’s goodness?
In this Greenhouse episode, Brian and Doc continue the conversation from Episode 142 by exploring one of the most difficult tensions in deep discipleship: how to affirm God’s goodness while honestly grieving the pain, injustice, and suffering of the world. Doc brings his own struggle into the conversation, naming the friction between experiencing God’s kindness in his own life and seeing deep suffering in the lives of others.
This episode is not a philosophical defense of God’s goodness. It is a conversation about lament, authenticity, doubt, secure attachment, and the kind of community where people can bring their rawest questions without being rushed, corrected, or shamed. Brian and Doc explore why modern church culture often struggles with lament, why easy answers can fail the heart, and why the deeper question beneath “Is God good?” may be a cry for withness.
Real Stories,
Real Transformation
The Soil and Roots podcast and our Greenhouse have reformed my entire paradigm about what discipleship is and how to journey into it.
Pennsylvania
When talking about our Greenhouse, my friends will say, ‘So it’s like a small group or Bible study.’ ‘No,’ I say. ‘It’s a Greenhouse. You just have to experience it to understand it.’
Texas
I never realized how my own story is tied to my spiritual formation and journey with Jesus. The podcast and my Greenhouse give me space to explore how those are connected.”
Florida
Starting or Joining a Greenhouse
Form a Greenhouse
If you’re considering forming and facilitating a Greenhouse, just click below to start the application process.
Join an existing Greenhouse
New physical and virtual Greenhouses are forming regularly. Click below to contact us for potential Greenhouses in your area.
Get More Information
Click below to view two helpful documents: About Greenhouses and Greenhouse FAQ
Talk to someone about a Greenhouse
Click below to sign up to speak with a Soil and Roots team member about Greenhouses.
What in the World
is Deep Discipleship?
Get started with our gift to you: "What in the World is Deep Discipleship?" This downloadable, short e-book offers plain-English explanations and a companion story about how to explore the deep end of the Christian faith in community. How might we better connect with God, others, and ourselves? How might we discover the "more" that is often missing from our journey with Jesus? How do we uncover the hidden ideas that form and govern us? Sign up now for your free short e-book!
